Working with Ultrez 10 - Chemists Corner

Formulating

Working with Ultrez 10

Posted by Lady_B on December 30, 2019 at 9:54 pm

So I wasn’t happy with the stickiness of my oil-free xantham/sclerotium based gels, as well as Sepimax Zen, and decided to try Carbomer in the form of Ultrez 10.
Well, so far I’ve ruined several batches and not sure what exactly is wrong. Maybe someone can advise?

Example batch 1:
- Mixed water and carbomer 1%
- Mixed few ingredients (glycerin 1%, propylene glycol 5%)
- Added neutralizer -> awesome gelling, but way too thick! I tried to add a bit water, it helped to achieve better consistency. Then added more water with allantoin 1%, sodium lactate 1%, polysorbate 80 1% and fragrance (1%) and it suddenly lost all viscosity. pH at 5.5

Example batch 2:
- Mixed water and carbomer 0.4% (so it works well with the lotion pump)
- Mixed the rest of the ingredients (glycerin 1%, propylene glycol 5%, sodium phytate 0.5%, sodium lactate 1%, allantoin 1%)
- Heated to 75-80C
- Waited to cool down to 60C and added neutralizer - > nothing happened, no gelling at all (5.5-6.5 pH, no difference)

I googled and it seems to be able to withstand salts, temperature, allantoin. Not sure what might be causing it. Any ideas?

belassi replied 4 years, 4 months ago 5 Members · 8 Replies
8 Replies

chemicalmatt

Member
December 30, 2019 at 10:14 pm

Ignore that bit about “withstand salts”. It won’t. Eliminate every sodium salt you have there and you should be fine.
Lady_B

Member
December 30, 2019 at 10:27 pm

Yay! Thank you
ngarayeva001

Member
December 31, 2019 at 12:30 am

The majority of acrylic acid derived polymers don’t tolerate electrolytes. Some, like Zen, do better than others but they all lose viscosity. Sodium Lactate at 2% would turn Zen into liquid asl well. Stick to glycols for humectants. Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, NaCl, Zinc PCA is not a full list of ingredients that cause loss of viscosity.
Lady_B

Member
December 31, 2019 at 1:50 am

ngarayeva001 said:

The majority of acrylic acid derived polymers don’t tolerate electrolytes. Some, like Zen, do better than others but they all lose viscosity. Sodium Lactate at 2% would turn Zen into liquid asl well. Stick to glycols for humectants. Sodium Lactate, Sodium PCA, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, NaCl, Zinc PCA is not a full list of ingredients that cause loss of viscosity.

Thank you!
belassi

Member
January 1, 2020 at 7:05 am

Your formulation method is not correct.
1. Do not heat carbomer to such temperatures.
2. It’s important to go about things in the correct order. Let me take a look at one of my (Ultrez 20) gels:
Looks like -
Ultrez-20 0.8% (this is added to half of the total water and left to hydrate)
aloe vera 6090C (10x concentrate) 10% (so, you see, lots of electrolytes are possible)
active ingredients (aqueous) 4.5%
panthenol 1%
NaOH (neutralize carbomer) 0.25%
water q/s
preservative
(no fragrance)

This produces a clear gel of excellent sensorials and pleasant aroma.
So, mix half the water with the things you need to dissolve, such as EDTA, and the actives, and the other half with the Ultrez. Allow time to hydrate. Stir, do NOT use high shear. With mixing set to high, combine the two halves, at the same time adding the NaOH in a thin stream, dissolved in a little of the water. Reduce mixing speed as the gel forms. Mixing technique is important so as to avoid excessive trapped air and / or fisheyes.

You mentioned you’re using Ultrez-10. I don’t have experience with that. I assume it’s yield values are different. I have the manual on carbomers from Lubrizol in the lab not here, but I don’t think the difference will be that great, you’ll have to adjust accordingly.

I think the sodium lactate and polysorbate are very bad ideas in a gel like this.
Cafe33

Member
January 2, 2020 at 1:44 am

Thank you for your post Belassi.

What is the target pH when neutralizing Ultrez-20?

And by comparison, how would I find out how to neutralize Carbopol 940?
Do I need to have direct contact with Lubrizol or is the information available for different materials?
Lady_B

Member
January 2, 2020 at 6:50 am

Thanks @Belassi! I’m trying to follow the “20 minute heat” rule to be safe, and the formulation guidance on few formulas suggested to stir Ultrez 10 in a room temperature water and then heat to 75C. Looks like it wets better in lower temperature. Checked their datasheet again and apparently they don’t recommend heating over 70C only when it is mixed with oils: “As in the case
of other carbomer polymers, the polymer/oil slurry
should not be heated above 70°C or the polymer may
become plasticized.”

I use distilled water and turn on UV lamp for 30 mins before I start, but assumed better be safe anyway.

It does indeed catch air very easily, even when I mix just with the spatula! My serum finally turned out fine and I like its skin feel, I guess I’m going to be experimenting more.
belassi

Member
January 2, 2020 at 4:39 pm

Final pH for my product is 6.5
940 is neutralised the same way. It’s just that wetting takes ages. I leave mine for a couple of hours, typically.