Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Non Coconut Derived Surfactant (Non Sulfate)

  • Non Coconut Derived Surfactant (Non Sulfate)

    Posted by PeaceLoveNaturals on March 6, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    Many people are finding that coconut oil is stripping and that they may even have a skin sensitivity to it. In my herbal training I don’t use coconut oil as I have understanding that its very astringent. I’m assuming this is the downside to it being in haircare at higher %. Because of this many women don’t want to use anything that derives from coconut including surfactants.
    1. But do coconut derived surfactants have the same composition as coconut oil once formed into a surfactant?
    2. Should people with coconut sensitivity also be concerned with surfactants that come from coconut?
    3. And what are some non sulfate alternatives like Decyl Glucoside that can be used as shampoo detergent alternatives?
    I’ve also heard that Micellar Water may work but also may be too gentle for shampoo unless it was baby wash.

    PeaceLoveNaturals replied 3 years, 11 months ago 3 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • pharma

    Member
    March 6, 2020 at 9:27 pm
    1. Coconut oil and coconut derived surfactants are two separate things and have basically nothing in common (except that the raw material grew on the same tree).
    You could simply switch to palm oil derivatives :smiley: (these can be nearly identical to coconut oil derivatives).
    2. Depending on what causes sensitivity, some surfactants may probably cause symptoms in highly allergic persons. Although, it’s rather unlikely that common allergens (proteins) could survive all synthesis, separation, and purification steps a surfactant runs through.
    3. The decyl moiety from decyl glucoside might actually come from coconut oil ;) . Very often, it’s not clear from where exactly the fatty part of a surfactant comes from. These days, it’s often palm oil which is, depending on supply/demand, often mixed with coconut oil. Probably due to the ‘palm oil free’ trend, hydrogenated canola and sunflower oil become a new source for longer chain fatty acids. If you read ‘decyl’, ‘capryl’ or the like, it’s usually coconut or palm oil. Unfortunately ‘palmityl’ and ‘stearyl’ may be derived from many things such as palm, canola, tallow, and even coconut.
  • oldperry

    Member
    March 7, 2020 at 1:06 am

    I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed on a few subjects.

    Coconut oil is not astringent! It is an emollient.  The FDA defines astringents as “…(products) applied to the skin or mucous membranes for a local and limited protein coagulant effect.”  Coconut oil does not have this effect. Coconut oil does absorb into hair to some extent but this has nothing to do with astringency. I wonder where this myth originated.  And hair doesn’t have a mucous membrane either but I digress.  

    To your specific questions…

    1. Coconut oil is made up of triglycerides. They are chemically broken down into Fatty Acids prior to making them into surfactants. This makes them completely different molecules & materials. For example, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate can be made from coconut oil or palm kernel oil. It can also be made from Petroleum. There is chemically no difference. 

    2.  What @Pharma said.

    3.  Micellar water will not work to clean hair. It really doesn’t even work to clean skin but some people like it.

     

  • PeaceLoveNaturals

    Member
    March 7, 2020 at 4:37 am

    Pharma said:

    1. Coconut oil and coconut derived surfactants are two separate things and have basically nothing in common (except that the raw material grew on the same tree).
    You could simply switch to palm oil derivatives :smiley: (these can be nearly identical to coconut oil derivatives).
    2. Depending on what causes sensitivity, some surfactants may probably cause symptoms in highly allergic persons. Although, it’s rather unlikely that common allergens (proteins) could survive all synthesis, separation, and purification steps a surfactant runs through.
    3. The decyl moiety from decyl glucoside might actually come from coconut oil ;) . Very often, it’s not clear from where exactly the fatty part of a surfactant comes from. These days, it’s often palm oil which is, depending on supply/demand, often mixed with coconut oil. Probably due to the ‘palm oil free’ trend, hydrogenated canola and sunflower oil become a new source for longer chain fatty acids. If you read ‘decyl’, ‘capryl’ or the like, it’s usually coconut or palm oil. Unfortunately ‘palmityl’ and ‘stearyl’ may be derived from many things such as palm, canola, tallow, and even coconut.

    Thank you for the great info!

  • PeaceLoveNaturals

    Member
    March 7, 2020 at 4:47 am

    Perry said:

    I’m afraid you’ve been misinformed on a few subjects.

    Coconut oil is not astringent! It is an emollient.  The FDA defines astringents as “…(products) applied to the skin or mucous membranes for a local and limited protein coagulant effect.”  Coconut oil does not have this effect. Coconut oil does absorb into hair to some extent but this has nothing to do with astringency. I wonder where this myth originated.  And hair doesn’t have a mucous membrane either but I digress.  

    To your specific questions…

    1. Coconut oil is made up of triglycerides. They are chemically broken down into Fatty Acids prior to making them into surfactants. This makes them completely different molecules & materials. For example, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate can be made from coconut oil or palm kernel oil. It can also be made from Petroleum. There is chemically no difference. 

    2.  What @Pharma said.

    3.  Micellar water will not work to clean hair. It really doesn’t even work to clean skin but some people like it.

     

    Sorry for the improper terminology. I do wonder why many people do become dried out with coconut oil then. Myself, I cannot use coconut oil on my skin. After just a few times my skin become dry and itchy. Also when used on the hair for many women it creates dryness, dullness and creates frizz and no moisture at all. Could it be the amount used in a product or maybe someones ethnicity or simply an intolerance? Maybe the correct term isnt “astringent” but does coconut have certain properties that can be stripping? I know its highly antibacterial yes? Could this be a factor? 

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