vitalys
Forum Replies Created
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Happy Birthday, Perry! Thank you for everything you do for the education in our field!
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@justaerin Thank you for the clarification
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@Adamnfineman No, I meant the link you shared. The product contains: water, cetyl alcohol, propylene glycol, sodium lauryl sulfate, stearyl alcohol, methylparaben, propylparaben, butylparaben.
So SLS is the only active surfactant here. Frankly, despite the fact that SLS is still demonized, it works great when properly formulated even for the sensitive or injured skin.
However, SCI works great for the conditions that your patient has too.
As for LGA I don’t know any suppliers in the US. This surfactant had been introduced by Ajinomoto long before it appeared in the US. It is also available from Chinese manufacturers. -
@Adamnfineman LOL Thank you! My day has just begun but I bet it is going to be alright
Re: Cetaphil. It is very simple (which is good). I hope your patient’s skin tolerates SLS - that is good news too. If not, there are plenty of “milder” solutions, including the relatively new surfactants like Lauroyl Glutamic Acid’s salts, which are also known as Amino soaps (very popular in Korea, Japan, etc). What I like is that the formulations based on LGA have low pH and allow you to incorporate some useful actives - acids, etc. They also look very attractive to a user - like a regular clear soap bar. The people with skin problems love it despite the price. -
Sorry - the wrong thread
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@Adamnfineman Probably, you’ll find this clinical report interesting to read
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@Adamnfineman Probably, you’ll find this clinical report interesting to read
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@Pattsi Excellent input! Loose clothes are a must. The choice of the right cleanser is also important.
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@Adamnfineman
Cithrol PGTL is from Croda and they offer very detailed TDS along with the basic formulations. I find it the easiest w/o emulsifier especially for HIPE (high internal phase emulsion) and you can incorporate up to 80% of water to get stiff gel like cream. As with any other w/o emulsifiers add salts (Mg2SO4, etc), and I highly recommend the homogenization in the end of the process. When you pair it with high HLB emulsifier you will get o/w emulsions. Another alternative could be silicone-based w/o emulsifiers such as Cetyl PEG/PPG-10/1 Dimethicone.
Laureths may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. If you are in the US L-9 from Nikkol (Barnet) and from Omya Kinetik seem to show the best results. L-7 from Protameen. -
@Abdullah
When it comes to the massive chronic skin barrier disruption, especially when they emerge on the large surfaces of the skin, salicylic acid is rarely used to avoid the risk of salicylism and furthermore the applications of salicylic acid solutions may be too painful on the damaged skin and provoke even more severe inflammation. The feasible therapeutic effects start at 2% and up. However, it is useful sometimes when the scalp is involved in the rinse -off applications. -
@Adamnfineman Thank you for the detailed picture.
Good news it is not psoriasis. Bad news is that disease affects large surfaces of the body. You are completely correct that moisturizing along with the skin barrier recovery slows down the basal cell’s turnover. However, the repeated applications of the highly concentrated Urea solutions work as a skin peel making cells to divide even faster. The principle of “slowly but surely” (in terms of dead cells removal) will be more efficient in atopic dermatitis patients. Since your first formulation is a rinse-off product, consequently you use only keratolytic properties of Urea, not moisturizing here. I also surmise that the current treatment plan may become too complicated, annoying and inconvenient for your patient, which can lead to nonadherence and failure of the therapy later.
Why not formulate a formula that can combine all key actives in one comfortable cream/lotion or even a spray? You may combine the following:
Urea - 10-12%
Glycerol - 7%
Petrolatum up to 10%
Ceramide combo - 3% (as you already use)
Lactic acid -2-3%
Caprilic/Capric triglycerides and/or Stearic acid - as a source of fatty acids to maintain the lipid barriers along with ceramides.
Squalane -2-3% or Hemisqualane
You may also consider the use of Laureth-9 or 7 -3-4%(sometimes the latter gives some more pronounced effect) as antipruritic agents.
In order to make the final product even more efficient and prolong the activity of the active ingredients and keep the occlusive film on the skin, which will work as an artificial protective layer, it would be better to use w/o emulsion with modern w/o emulsifiers as Cithrol PGTL(combining it with Laureths you will get a liquid o/w emulsion for spray application, which will maintain the quite resistant occlusive film) or similar.
Keep emulsion at pH 4-4.20. Use Triacetin or Triethyl Citrate (better) for Urea stability.
Re: Patient’s immunity
I am sorry that they don’t follow the recommendations, which are essential for the allergic patients. They have to keep to the correct diet and avoid contacts with allergens. That is why we usually exclude all the ingredients that can be potentially irritating. If they already had an episode of the anaphylaxis in the past, the next episode may lead to fatal results. If they don’t follow the recommendations the use of any topical products doesn’t show the full efficacy as the allergic inflammatory mediators are continuously produced by cells… Unfortunately, the oatmeal (I assume due to its popularity) shows some negative results in patients with sensitive skin or allergic patients or in patients with food allergies. -
@Syl It depends on the type of eczema. IL-13 inhibitors are effective in type1 hypersensitivity (it most often manifests in a form of asthma outbreaks, angioedema, anaphylaxis) while corticosteroids play role in therapy as immunosuppressants to inhibit the immune response. We don’t know the exact diagnosis in this current case. It looks like our colleague deals with some chronic disorder.
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@Adamnfineman
Re: Oatmeal cream
I would rid of the following:
-Shea butter (stimulates irritation in those with eczematous lesions)
-Oatmeal (can also be additional irritant for the patients with skin diseases)
You may also probably need to replace the preservative system for paraben blends (the current one can be a severe irritant). TEA replace with TRIS Amino or Arginine.
I would also increase Petrolatum ( up to 7-10% depending on formulation), Glycerin up to 6-7. -
@Adamnfineman
Eczema (or dermatitis) is a very vague term. What is the exact diagnosis? The treatment will depend on the diagnosis. How do those flare ups look/ Can you describe them in detail? At what parts of the body do those flare ups occur?
A cursory glance - it looks like 40% Urea is too much. This % is usually used on the nails or on the thick skin type (palms or soles).
I am afraid that this kind of treatment stimulates the skin cells’ turnover instead of results you expect, because Urea at 40% works as a strong keratolytic (reed peeling). Why do you need to slow the skin’s turnover? Does your patient have psoriasis? -
@jeremien I am afraid that the information you have recommended is highly marketing biased. It is nothing but very professional quality advertising. However, nobody (from the representatives of the peptide manufacturers) can explain how the active reaches the target structures in the skin… And how peptides overcome the epidermal barriers.
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@fotis83 When you read some articles you can recognize words that are “red flags” to warn you that you are reading the fear mongering trash. The one of the most popular is “cancer”… I don’t have an idea why they intimidate people with cancer, but they use it widely. There is a plethora of other dangerous conditions… But they like this scary word to emphasize the danger.
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@Eugene I meant wone waste products such as seeds, grape pomace (slins), etc all of them could be employed in the cosmetic products.
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@fotis83 Your case is another example of how fear mongering works. The fear mongering is one of the favorite tools in hands of some cosmetic companies and media to manipulate people. Of course, the facts are not always on a top of the pile, but they exist.
Crothix is not pure PEGs, but just PEG’s derivatives, which are different compounds. And it is still safe as well as a range of pure PEGs. -
@Chinny Hello.
To make a water-resistant cream you may want to change the type of emulsion as a cream base. It should be w/o emulsion. Silicone emulsifiers are the best to create the product you want to formulate. -
@Eugene Mmmmm Saperavi sounds like magic to me
I bet you are based in Georgia, aren’t you? Your idea is doomed to the commercial success! Wine and its waste materials are a great source for the variety of cosmetic products. I used to work for the very similar concept 10 years ago and the commercial results were so impressive from both marketing and commercial standpoints. Every sort of wine has its own benefits, which can be used for varieties of cosmetic products from a light cream to the scrub or even the special types of skin care. -
@Fekher Yes, it varies from 5% to 20% and it depends on the fixative properties you want to achieve. However, 5-8% will already bring nice fixation, especially in hair sprays.
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@Fekher Yes, the creation of hair gels, hair sprays is feasible. The fixating is very similar to Lubrizol’s Fixate superhold polymer.
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@Fekher Arginine has excellent fixative properties as well.
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@Abdullah Sorry I didn’t mention the source.
Masanori Takenouchi, M.S., Hiroyuki Suzuki, and Hachiro Tagami, M.D. “Hydration Characteristics of Pathologic Stratum
Corneum-Evaluation of Bound Water” Department of Dermatology, Tohoku University (HT), Sendai, Japan -
@Abdullah Yes SC is hydrated, which means it contains water to some limited extend. SC is highly dynamic structure. The hydration of SC defines the local homeostasis of SC, the proper structures of the lipid bilayers and the degree of this hydration depends on the blood microcirculation in the upped dermis and the outer humidity and environment.
The SC water content and water retaining capacity of corneocytes and NMF depends on different skin conditions or skin pathologies too. See the picture attached.