fareloz
Forum Replies Created
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They claimed that ascorbic acid can dissolve in propylene glycol at up to 17% (uh, citation needed…).
It’s true, I’ve seen some patent stating that. The solubility in propylene glycol can increase in presence of Urea.
how on earth are you all (and the brains behind the patented C/E/F formula) managing to dissolve 20% ascorbic acid in a serum that has less than 50% water
Are we? Skinceuticals sell 15% formula. Lotioncrafter states 15%. It’s only you who tweaked the formula to get 20% ????
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Try to check powdered face washes. They often use clays and starches
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Preservation also depends on preservative content (how much it in?). pH. chelators. manufacturing condition (if contamination load is heavy in the facility - no preservative will handle this)
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You are at a wrong place to ask this question. It is formulation forum, not marketing/economics forum.
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Why not just try? I mean salt and glycerin are very cheap, you can prepare several small batches and see what ratio is the best for you.
Anyway, I found an SDS (safety datasheet) for KMS HAIRPLAY SEA SALT SPRAY product. It’s INCI is:
Water / Aqua / Eau, Magnesium Sulfate, Alcohol Denat., Propylene Glycol, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Isoceteth-20, Citric Acid, PVP, Sea Salt / Maris Sal / Sel Marin, Sorbitol, Sodium Benzoate, Diazolidinyl Urea, Fragrance / Parfum.
In the SDS they say:
- ethanol content is 2.5 - 10%
- propylene glycol is 0.1 - 2%
Maybe this can be your starting point for Glycerin too: 0.1 - 2.0%
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Carbomer and many other DIY popular polymers (like Sepiplus, Lecigel, Aristoflex etc) will lose thickening ability in presence of strong electrolytes like sodium salts. That’s why suppliers always have a graph of polymer viscosity based on level of NaCl (table salt).
The solutions are:
- To use more electrolyte-tolerant polymer, e.g. Sepimax Zen. Not sure if it can handle 3% of SAP, but they suggest to add salts after thickening
- Use gums. Remove carbomer and increase xanthan gum (you already use it). Or you can use some mixture of gums, like Solagum
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First solution is not to use all capital letters when writing a topic. This looks rude on internet and decreases responsiveness of people
Second solution is to go with pH 6. Neutralize salicylic acid with NaOH to get Sodium Salicylate. There are some studies showing it can work as great as Salicylic Acid in the long run, but with less irritation and suggested for sensitive skin (see https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2009.00501_2.x)
Third solution is to go with pH 3.5. Many claim that Niacinamide is not affected by acidic pH level, but personally I prefer to avoid acidic pH for Niacinamide.
Fourth solution would be to make anhydrous formula. No water - no pH. So mix of Glycerine and propylene glycol allows to dissolve both Salicylic Acid and Niacinamide. No preservation needed too.
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It doesn’t matter what type of glycol you use: PG, Pentylene, etc. The only difference is aesthetics. But the extract you mentioned as I found doesn’t contain Salicylic Acid, it contains Methyl Salicylate, which is not the same.
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All the extracts - out.
Glycerin only can give tacky feeling, their mix of Pentylene Glycol, Butylene Glycol, Glycerin is probably better in sensorial meaning. For example Pentylene Glycol gives interesting effect of “water that is more watery than water”. But functionality I don’t think it matters.
Also, I feel like 20% is too much. 5% is a sweat spot referenced in every paper I saw. 20% feels like number marketing (to beat other brands with 5%, 10%, 15% percents). But if you can handle it and you like it - it is up to you.
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Obvious way - increase amount of the fragrance.
Also, different fragrances last different amount of time. Try to change the fragrance.
You could also use a fixative. Some suppliers sell premade base for perfumes, it contains fixative in right amount. You could buy it, it is easier to find and cheaper than buy fixative in bulk and dilute.
If you want a persistent smell you might change the product type, like instead of spray use a diffuser - a jar with special sticks that evaporates fragrance from the jar at some rate and gives constant smell. Disadvantage - you can’t “turn it off”
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<div>The closest product I can remember is Joko Blend Hydrophilic Cleansing Oil-Gel:</div>
Glycerin, Prunus Armeniaca Kernel Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Aqua, Sucrose Palmitate, Jojoba (Buxus Chinensis) Oil, Sucrose Laurate, Parfume, CI 45100.
They use Sucragel (Sucrose Palmitate, Sucrose Laurate) to jellify the oils and make them hydrophilic. As you can see they use a blend of glycerin and oil, most likely glycerin is 50%+. It adds warming sensation on application and reduces cost.
Sucragel is very popular with this kind of formulas (they call it oleogel).
Some info on how to work with it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxshtfhjf-o
And here https://www.botanicalformulations.com/blog/how-to-work-with-sucragel-oily-gels
And another formula here https://www.womanwithmind.com/oil-cleansing-gel-using-sucragel/
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I don’t think adding urea (another super finicky ingredient) is the solution I’m looking for
It’s not a suggested solution, just a remark from the same patent where solubility in PG is mentioned. The whole patent was about increasing solubility in PG using Urea.
If you want to have a source about PG solubility, here is the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070077261A1/en
It says:
It was also determined that in a composition comprising, by weight, 17% ascorbic acid and 83% propylene glycol prepared by heating the mixture at 75.degree. C., the ascorbic acid was soluble under this experimental condition. This result is consistent with the solubility data disclosed in U.S. Pat. No. 6,361,783.
patents.google.com
A method for dissolving ascorbic acid in a nonaqueous alcohol solvent using a solubilization enhancer is described. The amount of ascorbic acid solubilized in the nonaqueous alcohol solvent containing the solubilization enhancer is greater than the amount of ascorbic acid … Continue reading
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We don’t know their formula, mostly sure they just use enough water.
We know only formulas from Lotioncrafter and L’Oreal’s patent for CEF serum. And they don’t go over 15%.
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Maybe not glycerin but other humectant, like propylene glycol?
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It also depends on how much salt you add. Maybe you add too much and it flakes.
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All. Extract are very diluted substances. If you want specific benefit use dedicated ingredient.
Read more here: https://desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com/plant-extracts-plant-extract-isolates-the-1-percent-rule/
desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
Plant Extracts & Plant Extract Isolates In Clean Beauty
Plant Extracts It is very common to look at the List Of Ingredients of a cosmetic product and see a wide variety of plant extracts included in the product and the marketing descriptions extoll the benefits of the plant extracts. … Continue reading
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Please don’t hijack other’s question to get answer for yours. Create a new thread ????
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Why? You will wash it away too fast for it to do something.
Anyway, if you check CeraVe Blemish control cleanser - they use Niacinamide and SA in one cleanser (but pH is very high)
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Is it a real answer or generated by AI? ????
Usually you would ask to provide the formula in order to answer what goes wrong.
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I am sorry, I am not an expert in the field. I only know that my supplier sells perfume alcohol which contains around 0.01 - 0.5% of diethyl phthalate as a fixative.
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Hmm… I read a lot about issues with montanov range, but personally haven’t had any problems with Montanov 202. I use it in combination with Lecigel to create a light non-shiny CCT emulsion for myself. I use it right away, so it never stays more than a motnh or two on my shelf. Maybe that’s why I don’t have issues with separation or something else…
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They use specific fragrance blends for the purpose. Also, by “perfume base” in other comment I meant a solution of ethanol, PG or DPG and Benzyl benzoate and/or diethyl phthalate. Two latter are considered as fixatives.
If you need a lingering smell I would personally suggest to just use other format of the product - diffuser, which stays in the car and lingers smell constantly.
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As I understood from “as a base of Dimethicone” the product doesn’t have water?
Anyway I wonder why people don’t attach formula when asking such kind of questions.
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Note that in the study Copper Chloride was combined with salicylic acid (4%), ethanol (4%) in PG base. So the study proves the combination works better that the same combination without Copper Chloride. It means to be proven you need replicate the same combination, which make it a drug due to high SA percentage.
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I assume because it might be easier or more pleasant to apply some oily gel than very think liquid oil