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Perry said:

I suppose I have too much knowledge about formulation and am also incredibly skeptical about marketing stories. 

Like I said, I’m a terrible cosmetic consumer.

That’s why you are a chemist and not a marketing guy. Good magician ought to believe in his magic))

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Another one trend would be to sell not only products but formulas and ingredients to make them. The Ordinary did a step towards it by selling niacinamide and ascorbic acid powders. I suspect some brand will go even further - provide a formula and detailed instructions of how to make their already selling product and will sell you ingredients kit. This will be seasoned as “your product will be fresh” or “less plastic because you don’t buy it and reuse” etc

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Inspire by invisible product trend, I expect new trend of waters. E.g. thermal water in the product, or infused water, or some other water, like ionized or whatever, which means nothing but makes fancy labels

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You are actually might be wrong. I checked my supplier and CO2 extract, for example, of Aloe is actually oil-soluble.
I used the word “might” because from the name in INCI list you can’t know if it is a CO2 extract or glycerin one.

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moomin said:

Thanks for all your ‘supporting’ advice! NOT! 
I thought I might make something similar as a sellable product, not using milk of mag but using the stuff in it. I’m not a chemist, don’t have a clue about chemicals

You are wrong. The fact that you are not a chemist and don’t know basic chemistry, but you want to sell your DIY product is actually ridiculous. Skincare is not food. 

moomin said:

I misunderstood this site for support and help!

Indeed, this forum is for people who is real professional and work in skincare field as chemists. Or for passionate people having skincare formulations as their hobby. All of them spent a lot of time to read and learn.
The reason you get such answers is just because you think that making a product is just as easy as to chop a salad. This is insulting for people who spend years and a lot of effort to get education in this field.

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Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Just trying to help. You said in the message the questions were for pH adjustment. Like Mark said you knew the answer & I just told you what to do. The strong base works and it’s easy to buy in small quantities. 

If you are make a diy product and you need to have a final pH of say 6 then NaOH will work so use it. 

Wear gloves & dilute it so it’s again safer to use. That’s all. 

Thanks Abdullah you knew I was just being helpful. 

Yes, I know, thank you for that. Sorry if I sounded rude, I didn’t mean to. But I want to understand not inly what should I do, but also why I should do it this way and not another.

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Thank you all for the answers!
Unfortunately NaOH of cosmetic grade is unavailable in small quantities (only household grade for pipes), baking soda is the most available option since you can find it in any food store. 
I don’t need high pH, I usually need to raise pH a little bit in water solutions of acids. So bubbles shouldn’t be a problem. I guess the most important question is will it fully react with e.g. Citric acid if I add the right amount, or some soda will be staying unreacted because it is a weak base? Or will it react slowly with time? That’s my concern

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My bets:
- The trend will be to follow the Ordinary trend because of inflation. So companies will try to make cheap one-two ingredient products
- Another trend will be charity. E.g. each cent from the cost goes to refugees. 

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GeorgeBenson said:

This body oil i found on sephora seens to be doing it somehow:

Oryza Sativa (Rice) Bran Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Parfum/Fragrance, Camellia Japonica Seed Oil, Polyglyceryl-10 Pentaisostearate, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil, Chamaecyparis Obtusa Wood Oil, Squalane, Chamaecyparis Obtusa Water, Saccharomyces/Rice Ferment Filtrate, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Cladosiphon Okamuranus Extract, Prunus Persica (Peach) Leaf Extract, Ceramide NP, Propanediol, Butylene Glycol, Tocopherol, Tremella Fuciformis Polysaccharide, Aqua/Water/Eau, Citronellol, Geraniol, Farnesol, Limonene, Linalool, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol.

any idea how they are accomplishing this?

Polyglyceryl-10 Pentaisostearate
If you google the name you’ll see it is an emulsifier.

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MarkBroussard said:

@toketsu

Baking Soda in water will form Carbonic Acid that in water will revert to Carbon Dioxide and Water … hence all the gas produced when using Sodium Bicarbonate.  You don’t have that issue with Sodium Hydroxide.

But, if this is DIY for your personal use, Baking Soda is fine.  But, you would not want to use it in a product for commerce. 

It looks like you already knew the answer, but weren’t completely certain.  

Thank you for the input! Yes, I tried to understand myself the reasons, but I wanted to have a confirmation from someone who is from the field. Thanks a lot!

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ketchito said:

@toketsu Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is a weaker base than Sodium hydroxide, so that is one reason. Also, Sodium hydroxide is cheaper (although in some countries you need to ask for a permit and declare your annual consumption, since it’s also used to make Breaking bad kind of drugs). You mentioned the CO2 release and that carries an aereation issue (especially in emulsions).  

Thank you! I didn’t know about the cost… 
If baking soda is a weaker base does it mean it doesn’t fully react or something? 

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Abdullah said:

Do as Dr catherine said.

Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Use NaOH and make up a dilution before you add drops for pH adjustment 

Thank you both for your input, but can you elaborate a bit more? NoOH of cosmetic grade is not easily available in DIG quantity.. Could you tell why better to use it instead of baking soda? 

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Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Use NaOH and make up a dilution before you add drops for pH adjustment 

That’s not what I asked 

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For pH adjustment 

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GeorgeBenson, usually extracts  are preserved with some preservative, so actual preservative could be hidden behind extracts names. Many brands hide preservation in this way to be more “green” and “clean”. Together with high glycerin and diol content it could give a decent preservation. I hope they had a good stability testing

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zetein said:

Calamine lotions are not preserved.

If I understand correctly, you mean pink two-phase spot drying lotions, like Mario Badescu one. If so, their liquid is a pure alcohol.

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From the user perspective, I think it is Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer. I noticed that gels with film-formers like this (or Carbomer in case of my CeraVe cleanser) leave a tiniest film on the skin and it feels less drying.

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But I would expect the same ratio of ingredients, e.g. 1 to 4 or something like that, but the ration is different…

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The question is: do you really want to add anti-irritant? It seems like you want to mix unmixable things. It’s like shampoo and conditioner in one bottle canceling each other. Maybe wiser would be to have 2 different products: one AHA (I guess it is a peeling) product and one soothing afterward?

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ariepfadli said:

I used allantoin and sprinkle zinc PCA

I checked my supplier, Zinc PCA requires 4.0-6.0 pH otherwise side effects will happen

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I also use Allantoin. If you have good grade of it, it dissolves with no issues and mostly no heating. I usually add 0.5% of water content in my product.

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Squinny said:

For the dumb people like me what is LAA?  Assume L-Ascorbic Acid? If so are you just using L-Ascorbic acid powder? I have made myself a very basic 10% Vitamin C serum with Distilled Water, L-Ascorbic Acid Fine Powder 10%, Ferulic Acid 0.8%, Glycerin, Pentylene Glycol, Xanthan Gum Clear + another preservative and have in an Amber dropper bottle wrapped in foil - This was just a test for myself and after close to 3 months it is still the same color it was when I made it. I kept in fridge at 12 degrees for first month but since then is at room temp (my room temp is around 25 to 26 degrees). I intend playing around with the formula so always interested in what other people are doing on this forum and continuing to learn. Note that mine is for my own use only and not to sell. Cheers

Yes, LAA is L-Ascorbic Acid.
Yes, L-Ascorbic acid is used as a powder.
The fact that your serum is still clear might not mean LAA is still non-oxidized. I heard (but I don’t claim it and would like to know if it is true) that brown color in serum is a reaction of LAA oxidation with aminoacids (the same way as fake tan reacts in skin). So if you have plain mix of LAA and Water you won’t see a color? Also, I’ve seen that there are several steps of degradation, so some products of degradation might not have a color? 

Also, the lower pH the more stable the acid. I don’t see any adjusters in your formula, so I assume it is very low ith 10% of LAA.

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Pharma said:

Do you have any source for that claim? Sodium and lactate are both electrolytes… Anyway, it does degrade faster in presence of certain metal cations (mostly ‘redox active’ heavy metals).

You are right, I mean metal ions. I’ve never seen a formulation with LAA and Sodium salts together, so I assumed Sodium is also speeds-up the degradation.

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DeedeeUkulele said:

Whenever I add ferulic acid to my anhydrous L-ascorbic acid serum, it quickly turns yellow. I know it’s not the LAA because the solution containing LAA alone is still completely clear after a month.

Serum 1 - Still clear after 30 days
15% LAA
85% propanediol

Serum 2 - Yellow in 5 days
15% LAA
1% ferulic acid
5% Sodium lactate
79% propanediol
* Heated to 50C to dissolve the ferulic acid

The difference between those 2 formulas is not only ferulic acid, but also Sodium lactate. Try to take it out and see what happens. LAA quickly degrades in presence of electrolytes (which is Sodium, right?), although I am not sure if it applies in waterless solutions.

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There is a study called “Mixed solvency approach”, it describes synergy between solvents. There is SA used as a model poorly soluble ingredient. So I guess you are following their method - combine sodium citrate, propylene glycol and polysorbate to get synergy of solvents.

For commenters above: sodium citrate is a hydrotrope used in many products to dissolve SA (or better to prevent recrystallization), it is not used as a chelator here (reference: Application of Sodium Citrate As Hydrotropic Agent In Spectrophotometric Analysis of Salicylic Acid)