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@ZivBA..hi !..i dont have laureth 4 and not able to get from other supplier. can you suggest substitute for it

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thanks @Microformulation @Perry

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@perry…pardon me.. I didnt mention.. But we have PQ-10=1.5%  in formula too. 

But if silicones are going to wash off. How we going to achieve the shiny, volume and slippery or rejuventated hair after wash and keep them like that for sometime. 

@Gunther .. I used Polyquat10 as cationic polymer.. But if i go for amodimethicone, will that be suffice to provide conditoning and silicone effect and enough to not to use pq10? 

@Microformulation… I read it but still it recommend amodimethicone in the end to use in 2 in 1 shampoo.. But when i searched i found
Amodimethicone is challenge to remove in rinse off.. Why not use somewhat water soluble and which doesnt built up on hair and leave it shiny.. May be dimethicone copolyol   

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And i found ppl struggling with salicylic acid solubility. It can be easily dissolved in PG. But how much PG is safe to use in shampoo instead of glycerin. 

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@Gunther…i have arranged some peg 8 dimethicone.

i have a doubt regarding the use of lipids in shampoos. adding a lipid makes me nervous because the outcome varies according the surfactant used and once the lipid is thr you are bound to use emulsifier too. but when i go to the hlb values it shoes sles a high HLB emulsifier . does that mean i have to pick only one emulsifier lower than the mean if calculated of lipid though they will contribute only 2-3 percent of total formulation.

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@ZivBA.. Tnks.. Can i use Cocamide Dea instead lauramide Dea

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@ngarayeva001.. Should i use propyl or methyl or combination of both and upto what percentage we should test it? 

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@em88  .we wanted a thick product so end up using 1% though started with 0.2%…. we mixed it in glycerin first with cocamide mea then poured in lukewarm solution of shampoo along with 

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@Gunther…Is HEC intended as a thickener? ..yes

i have dimethicone in stock.. but its not water soluble i think.. any suggestion regarding which silicone shd i use? 

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thanks guys. i think i got enough ammunition to go for testing..will try polysorbates… i understand that one emulsifier should be higher and one should be lower to cover mean hlb calculated for the solution but when you try to go in natural category the list shrinks and higher hlb mostly are synthetic..we tried stearic acid and cetearyl alchohol earlier in some other same base product and it worked fine but we never check there stability beyond six months.

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@Gunther ..yes we can remove oil. infact when we add oil the solution lose all its positives of good wash n shampoo.

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@ngarayeva001, @Microformulation… i have PEG 100 in stock…but  what about cocamide MEA in moisturizer?

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@ngarayeva001… i divided individual oil percentage with total and then multiply with individual hlb.. total oil percentage including cetyl is 16 not 11… though calculation is right.. so it will come across near 10

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@ngarayeva001

jojoba- 1% =                       hlb = 6.5/11=> 0.41
shea butter- 2%, =              hlb = 2×8/11=>1
Vitamin E- 1%, =                 hlb= 0.41
safflower oil - 3 %=             hlb= 8×3/11=>1.5
Almond oil - 3%,=               hlb= 3×7/11=>1.31
Avocado oil- 2%,                  hlb =7×2/11=>0.87
Beeswax- 0.5%=                  hlb => 0.5×12/11=.19
seabuckthorn oil - 0.5 %=    hlb = >.13

cetyl alcohol 4 % =  HLB required=>3.87

total hlb = 9.69

glycerin we were using 3 % earlier but we found it not upto the mark. trying another supplier for that

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@ngarayeva001… i need ur opinion abt baby moisturiser.

presently we are formulating this, so far no issues on front of texture, feel and preserving it as we make it small batches. but we are thinking of making it for longer shelf life.

water phase:

infused dandelion, neem, licorice,

aloe vera aqua ( 10% of total water
glycerin - 10 %
xanthum gum -0.5 %

Oil Phase:
jojoba, shea, vit e, safflower, almond, avocado,beeswax(0.5%)
sebuckthorn oil=total 11 %

emollient
cetyl alcohol- 3-5%
glycerol oleate- 1%

preservative - sodium benzoate-1 %
ethylhexylglycerin- 0.5%

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@MarkBroussard…yeah will try these in liquid soap

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 yea @ngarayeva001..its all marketing gimmick.. will try sodium benzoate and potassium in baby wash and adult shampoo 

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@ngarayeva001…will sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate work in shampoos?…as the ph will be around 6, wont it will be ineffective after a period on shelf life.. and can what percentage of dehydroacetic acid and benzyl alcohol do you recommend.?  presently we are formulating baby wash n shampoo, moisturizer and adult shampoos with plant based surfactant(only i adult shampoo)…. one more thing i really wanted to mention here.. it is such a relief to found something like this forum where i can gain from other experiences.. thank you all 

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the citric acid added more than required was the culprit. the surfactants  Cocamidopropyl Betaine - 40 % , Decyl Glucoside - 33%, Coco Glucoside - 60% 

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thanks @ngarayeva001.. we are adding hydrolized soy for protein. i made another batch with same proportion you suggested but PH came near 4.5// can you suggest a safer way to bring it back to 7.. i also wanted to know in general in baby product how to make it alkaline without adding lye?

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can you recommend good mix of surfectant we can use? pls

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i’m thankful to you all for taking out ur time and reply !… @belassi .. i m not so sure as we have put bentonite in other masks and no issues et al.. may b the acid structure is different here which doesnt burn in case of bentonite.. and with limonene only we tested it and didnt experience any burn…so far we believe and after hit and trial come to the conclusion its phenoxy…any suggestion friends wat preserative we can use instead of phenoxy which doesnt burn or can we neutralize phenoxy in this case with ethyhexylglycerin or any other?