[suswang8]

You can buy the standard Dynamic blender, with multiple attachments, for $150 or so, if you shop around in the US, and this should give decent results (not professional) as long as you don’t make batches smaller than 250g or so.  But if you want quasi-professional results or want to do batches as small as 150g or so, you will need the MiniPro Blender Tool (rotor stator head), which typically costs around $200 additional (more than the blender itself).  And you are correct, at the end of the day, you at least have a nice hand blender to use.  A huge consideration is if you want to be able to do small batches.  That, for me, is key, but it may not be for you.    

[suswang8]

Bo77 said:

I’m actually looking for some “affordable” reliable homogenizer. I don’t need anything fancy or powerful like crazy, just for my testers formulations I’m doing. I’m curious if homogenizer will kill carbomers in formulations. 

If you only paid $120 for the FSH-2A, and it is working as a homogenizer for you, that is a good deal.  

[suswang8]

In other news, do we know anyone who owns this Rotilabo (Carl Roth) tool?  I assume it is basically a Dremel, but I am not sure? 

They sell the attachments separately.  I guess I could use this in a Dremel?  Does the shape of the tip look like it would blend/homogenize well?   :*

[suswang8]

Yes - the FSH-2A.  I am curious about this one, too.

[suswang8]

Yes.  I don’t understand why she felt the need to increase the speed at all; it seemed like things were going fine at Level 2.  

I think I’m now deciding between this (Dynamic/Misceo) or a Bamix with whisk attachment.  Bamix would be about half the price, but downsides are (1) only two speeds and (2) tip/bell is much wider.   Hmmm.

[suswang8]

Also, on what speed setting are you able to comfortable use it?  I can see from this video, the person can’t safely take it past 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHBO2O2b5rs&t=757s

Thanks again.

[suswang8]

Thank you.  I actually just bought the same beaker for the same reason.

In terms of aeration, do you find you need to stir air out of your batches after you’ve used the homogenizing tip?  Or not necessary?

I’m trying to decide between this, the Ocis 2.0, or maybe a used Turrax from eBay.  Hmmmm.

[suswang8]

And when you say “emulsifier,” you mean the emulsifying blade — not the special homogenizing tip, right?

Also, in your view, what do you think the minimum quantity is that you can use this on?  I think someone above claimed 100ml?  Thank you.

[suswang8]

Graillotion said:

domicanica said:

Graillotion said:

The biggest functional difference between the cheap stick blenders….and the Mini-pro….is the ability to adjust speed.  None of the cheap ones that I burned through….could operate slowly.  Their slowest setting was faster than I often wanted in certain situations.  
The other thing….as I burned through 3 of them in about 9 months….they actually ended up being no cheaper….than one good one.   

You can not measure cost…when you need to slowly stir air out of your emulsion towards the end.

oooh okay, i see. i think i’ll end up going with this one, it’s in my price range and sounds like my best bet since im just starting out. did you have to buy this attachment tool as well? : https://www.dynamicmixersusa.com/product/ac560/

As a bit of a perfectionist….I did buy that attachment….and I believe I paid more for it…than the machine.
It was completely unnecessary!  Could not tell any difference in performance with the attachments that came with it (4).  ** Note ** so far I only used it in small 240 gm batches, my opinion may change as I ramp up into 4L batches.
However…as I switch to a new project, using lamellar emulsifiers, I think it will come in handy….where I can easily switch attachments after making the initial emulsion, and then switch to the other attachment during cool down and stirring.
Note….this is a very heavy…well built machine.  (Made in France)  So it will not be a light weight made in China gadget you may have seen in stores.  Being that it is therefore a little top heavy…always make sure to be careful…if you are leaving it standing up in a small sample beaker.  (Lost more than one batch…to an unfortunate tip over.)

Graillotion,
Are you still happy with your purpose when it comes to emulsifying?  Is it correct that you did not see a benefit in using the emulsifying attachment vs the homogenizer?

[suswang8]

Thank you.  It would just mean that I would thus be adding about 8% of the recipe at cool down, and that sounds a bit high based on Emma’s suggestion.  Any thoughts on that point, or there is no clear answer?  

[suswang8]

Good advice — thank you.  

-1-  I will not heat and hold.  I would plan to bring Phase A and B up to 150-160 degrees F, I think it is, and then bring them down, as you say.

-2-  I think you are correct that sorbitan stearate is not a complete emulsifier, but I believe when combined with cetyl alcohol, it is?  

-3-  Is the tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate heat sensitive?  I noticed you put that into cool down?  

[suswang8]

Are you trying to figure out the quantity that you need to order from your suppliers? Or are you trying, from a business/marketing perspective, to accurately figure out how much each bottle of oil is going to cost you to fabricate so you can plan how to price your product?  From what I see online, both coconut oil and olive oil weigh approximately 10% less in grams than water does.  In other words, 100 mL of each weighs approximately 90g.  If you’re planning to blend a bunch of oils (carrier — not essential) together, I think that this is a safe assumption.  But only you can decide whether you need an extremely precise figure.  The most expensive carrier oil that I know of, food-grade raw organic almond oil, costs <4GBP for 30ml, so if your question relates to pricing, I don’t think being off by 5-10% is going to hurt you much.

[suswang8]

I have not tested this, but someone said elsewhere that rapid cool down was key.  

[suswang8]

I would swear there was just another thread about this like yesterday.  Caprylohydroxamic acid

[suswang8]

Graillotion said:

I am interested in testing some formulas with SymRepair ® 100

INCI: 

Hexyldecanol (and) Bisabolol (and) Cetylhydroxyproline Palmitamide (and) Stearic Acid (and) Brassica Campestris (Rapeseed) Sterols

A quick search turned up empty for re-packers in the US.

Yes I requested from ULP…but I only have about 50% luck with that method.

Thank You

I cannot help you much (although I did send you an instant message about homogenizers!  )

The one suggestion I can give is to go directly to the company (perhaps by phone?) as many are not responding to generic emails like the used to, given CV.

I will say, in general, that I am amazed at how limited the selection is at even the better-known resellers.  LotionCrafter, for example, doesn’t even sell salicylic/glycolic acid.  I routinely feel like I have to go to several different places to get what I want.    

[suswang8]

USA.  Thank you for the Amazon recs — I had seen those before, but I’m looking for something a bit nicer.  The ones from Packing Options Direct might be OK, though.  Thank you.  

[suswang8]

Interesting point.  Thank you.

[suswang8]

For what it’s worth, I noticed that one high-end natural skincare manufacturer appears to be using both Spectrastat G2 Natural and a very small amount of phenoxyethanol.  This could be due to some tricky aspect of their formula, but I assume they must have tested things without the phenoxyethanol and found the formulation inadequately preserved.   

[suswang8]

Relatedly, does anyone have familiarity with these varieties of Xanthan Gum?  I would prefer to buy the cheaper one only because I only need a very small quantity and only plan to use it in a concentration of 0.2% or 0.3%.  Thank you.

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/xanthan-gum-soft?_pos=1&_sid=4e7d605b1&_ss=r

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/xanthan-gum-clear?_pos=2&_sid=4e7d605b1&_ss=r

[suswang8]

I believe New Directions might sell the two main components — Cetearyl Glucoside (and) Cetearyl Alcohol?  Either way, I cannot tell you if “68” will give you what you want in terms of feel unless you perhaps try it yourself with a lot less oil than I tried.  

[suswang8]

Hi, Raveena.

I am a total newbie, but I used Montanov 68 (also referred to as Vegetal) in my first batch of product after reading about it on Formula Botanica, which has a great blog post on it.  I did the 30% oil (but with 10% cocoa butter) 8% Montanov 68 recipe.  Obviously, this is a heavy cream formulation and not suitable for everyone, but I wanted to experiment with creating a rich eye cream.  I did not use any gums, and the final product is definitely thick enough for my purposes (i.e., you can turn the container upside down, and there is no product shift unless you were to shake it).  

In terms of feel, I apply it very sparingly (absolutely key for something this heavy), and …

1. You can feel an occlusive layer on your skin for a couple of hours after, depending on the wind and temperature — I am not sure what the term for this is in personal care products/cosmetic chemistry, but perhaps someone else can advise?   
2. This is most likely due to my very high oil/butter content, but if I touch my face for 1-2 hours after application, I can still feel some greasiness and can slide my finger across my face a tiny bit — in other words, it does not feel like it’s fully “absorbed.”  This is another aspect of product feel, and I’m not sure how to describe this specifically in cosmetic chemistry speak/lingo.

Overall, I liked the experience, but I have limited experience and cannot comment on how much better it would be with, say, 10%-15% oil, 4-5% Montanov, and maybe 0.2%-0.3% Xanthan Gum.    

I’d be interested in hearing what you are looking to achieve.  For my next adventure, I will be using either a combination of cetyl alcohol and sorbitan stearate, or Montanov 202.  I am looking for something “natural” as well as non-comedogenic.