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Hi sorry I dont know enough about your issue to help. Maybe the temperature is the problem if it anything like Vit C and heat with food - Degradation of vitamins, probiotics and other active ingredients caused by exposure to heat, water and sunlight (nutraceuticalbusinessreview.com)

Are you keeping at 40 degrees for stability testing or some such reason? Most products I believe you should keep below 30 and preferably 25 degrees. If you ae selling the product maybe you just need to have a warning (again I dont know the rules but you could look into) that states to keep product in a cool dark place and use with 1 month etc? Keep the packaging to a lower volume of say 15ml to 30ml max? Sorry I would like to assist more but dont have any other answers for you as I havent started on any Vit C products yet just doing research at this stage and for my own personal use not to sell. Maybe do a few test batches and keep at various temps and see what the results are like?. The Institute Of Personal Care Sciences have a few video’s on Youtube on formulating with Vit C and stability so may be worth a look. Also Labmuffin have some good info on Vit C.  Hope it works out for you. Cheers 

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Hi Tinas - I guess it depends on what products you are wanting to make to decide which emulsifiers/fatty thickeners etc you need/want to use. I have quite a few Emulsifiers now and they all give my cream and lotions different qualities. Some say that Olivem 1000 (Inci : Cetearyl Olivate, Sorbitan Olivate) tends to have a soaping effect but I havent found that so - I guess it depends on your whole formula.
Some emulsifiers I have used and like in conjunction with Cetyl or Cetearyl Alcohol (depending if I want it lighter or creamier product) are: Vegetal (other trade names are SUGARMULSE / GLUCOMULSE / MONTANOV68 IncI: CETEARYL ALCOHOL AND CETEARYL GLUCOSIDE - This is Ecocert and Cosmos approved if that matters to you (Note It doesnt to me and I prefer other emulsifiers myself including those with PEGs etc). Maybe check with your current Suppliers (I assume you have a few?) and ask their advice on what best will suit your needs. Cheers

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Vitamin A and Carotenoids - Health Professional Fact Sheet (nih.gov)

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I’m probably considered a ‘mummy blogger’ in your terms - though I’m not a mummy or blogger! Anyway FWIW I wouldn’t put Stearic acid in an eye cream personally. I have only used it a few times and have had mixed results - last time the product (hand cream) went grainy and according to New Directions Aust “Manufacturing Notes:  Add into the oil phase and heat thoroughly. Stearic Acid doesn’t melt until 69-71C and can cause granulation in your finished product if not properly mixed in.” So I obviously didn’t heat properly when I made the cream (probably being impatient on my behalf). I haven’t found it to give my a creamy consistency any time I have used it so I tend not to - even though I’ve got a 1 Kg sitting there mocking me to use it. Again FWIW I would look at popular/expensive brands and what is in their eye creams - find the one you like best and do a dupe on that. 
For instance the ingredients in Clinique’s Eye Cream or check other you might like the look of. 
Clinique All About Eyes™ ingredients (Explained) (incidecoder.com)

I find around the eye area I want a cream/gel/serum that glides on skin easily (not too much rubbing in) and find I it better personally to use a cream or eye serum at night before bed so it can do whatever whilst I sleep. Sometimes in the morning (or after a late night ha ha) I use my homemade eye gel (which I did a dupe on based on various gels) that contains pure caffeine and soothing ingredients including cucumber extract.
I guess you also need to decide what you are targeting with your eye product - wrinkles, dark circles, bags etc. or you want a miracle cream that does all! Anyway just my 2 cents worth as not too many other comments to date. Cheers - hope my post helps and if not at least I tried.

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Silvia said:

Hi,
several month before I have made hyaluronic acid (1%) serum with ferulic acid 0.3 %  (dissolved in heated propanediol 5 %). 
Also included MAP (mg ascorbyl phosphate), preservative potassium sorbate. 
The initial data: pH 6; odour - neutral. 
After one month in 40C temperature - serum acquired strong odor like diethyl ether used in dentistry or some of a kind as clove essential oil (Syzygium aromaticum). Please tell, what do you think happened? As ferulic acid  is 4-hydroxy -3 -methoxycinnamic acid, suppose it degraded into other compound or has interact with other ingredients? 

Thank you. 

Hi probably dumb questions here (by me) but I have been researching (for my own use only) the patent etc by L’Oreal on stability etc of Ascorbic Acid in conjunction with Ferulic Acid from what I can gather (again my mistakes if I dont understand) is with 15% L-ascorbic acid + 1% alpha tocopherol and 0.5% ferulic acid that this enhances antioxidant benefits and the stability of Vit C and E. (note this is with pH within 2.5 to 3.5 range).

So could the problem be pH of 6 too high - as all info I have found re Vit C works better at around pH 3.5 (assume more stable? or not) and the products should be be stored away from light in airtight containers. I am planning to make a few face gels/serums for myself at some stage (just playing with to see what hype of Vit C etc all about as I have never used). I was planning on adding up to 1% of Phloretin (would like to use less as very expensive) - Anyway if I am way off target would be good to know before I purchase some of the more expensive ingredients. Hope I havent hijacked the original discussion! (if so just ignore). Cheers all.

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Have a look online (being a woman I’ve never heard of a pomade before so found this interesting!) Anyway I googled and found this so may help give you an indication of %’s for your formula - Have a play with something and see what you come up with if it is anything like you want - assume just making for yourself. The below isnt written in %’s but you get the drift.
40 grams Kaolin
30 grams Coconut Oil
2 grams Shea Butter
Essential Oils 2 drops total (I’d skip this until you get the basic product right)
(You could probably add a small amount of beeswax to get a firmer product or use some instead of the Shea Butter if you dont have it?)
DIY Hair Styling Clay Recipe - Savvy Homemade

The Mailroom Barber one has the following ingredients (if this is the one you are talking about - there are a few so just look at the ingredient list for what you are after) - maybe use the same % ‘s as above or play with what ingredients you have to get right consistency?
Kaolin Clay, Jojoba Oil, Coconut Oil, Castor
Oil, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Carnauba Wax, Arrowroot Powder & Essential
Oils.
Have fun playing

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I believe (and this is what I do for my face and other lotion/Cream emulsions) is add it to the heated Water phase. My supplier advises ” Useage:  0.1-0.4% is usually enough and it is added into the water phase as soon as manufacturing begins.” So maybe check with your supplier and see what they suggest.

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nhatnguyen10 said:

Squinny said:

nhatnguyen10 said:

Squinny said:

Ingredients to Die for - check them out. The largest is 50 lbs but you can buy more than 1 of each product. Have  a look at their website or ring them.
Stearyl Alcohol NF (ingredientstodiefor.com)

11110 Metric Blvd Ste D, Austin, TX 78758

+1 (512) 535-2711

I will reach out to them!
Thank you so much!
i also looking to buy some in china for better price. Any experience you have before?

Thank you

Hi no I haven’t but I have recently used Myskinrecipes based in Thailand and for my small quantities I wanted they were very reasonable even with the shipping cost. I think they also do larger sizes - you can put it in the Custom size (note weights are in grams not USA pounds). I find it easier with them to use their search tool as not always obvious where the product is as Cetyl Alcohol comes under their Cosmetics/Base/Additives etc. Anyway here is link if you want to view yourself. You can put what you want in the cart and prices will be in Thai Baht so you will need to convert that to USD so $1BHT is approx $0.028 USD so with your exchange rate you may find quite reasonable. With me the shipping cost was about the same price as the ingredients but as you are buying larger quantities not sure how that would work out. They give you a separate quote for shipping and you don’t have to ahead with purchase if you find shipping cost too much. Anyway good luck here is the link for Cetyl Alcohol so you can see.
Cetyl Alcohol (Vegetable) Setyl alcohol - MySkinRecipes
Cheers 

Thank you for the information!

How did you ship it from Thai? Air or ocean? 

It is very hard to find a forwarder to ship from china to usa because they afraid of the white powders look like drugs ????????????

Air but I only had small quantity. The company arranged all not me. With your larger amount assume ocean shipping - anyway dont know - just check out their website or ring them for more info.
Dont you have any current suppliers you use? If not how come? If so reach out to them to discuss. If you find a real supplier they will provide all the paperwork that they need to ship so ‘white powders’ shouldn’t be an issue. I’m assuming you would be paying for CIF not FOB (look up the shipping terms) and the company you buy from would therefore organize the freight - Perhaps you need to do more research yourself and if you talking to Shipping Companies and FF’s etc ask what you need to do in order to Ship from wherever- Just a thought. Good luck.

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nhatnguyen10 said:

Squinny said:

Ingredients to Die for - check them out. The largest is 50 lbs but you can buy more than 1 of each product. Have  a look at their website or ring them.
Stearyl Alcohol NF (ingredientstodiefor.com)

11110 Metric Blvd Ste D, Austin, TX 78758

+1 (512) 535-2711

I will reach out to them!
Thank you so much!
i also looking to buy some in china for better price. Any experience you have before?

Thank you

Hi no I haven’t but I have recently used Myskinrecipes based in Thailand and for my small quantities I wanted they were very reasonable even with the shipping cost. I think they also do larger sizes - you can put it in the Custom size (note weights are in grams not USA pounds). I find it easier with them to use their search tool as not always obvious where the product is as Cetyl Alcohol comes under their Cosmetics/Base/Additives etc. Anyway here is link if you want to view yourself. You can put what you want in the cart and prices will be in Thai Baht so you will need to convert that to USD so $1BHT is approx $0.028 USD so with your exchange rate you may find quite reasonable. With me the shipping cost was about the same price as the ingredients but as you are buying larger quantities not sure how that would work out. They give you a separate quote for shipping and you don’t have to ahead with purchase if you find shipping cost too much. Anyway good luck here is the link for Cetyl Alcohol so you can see.
Cetyl Alcohol (Vegetable) Setyl alcohol - MySkinRecipes
Cheers 

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2nd formula is the liquid foundation example: 

LIQUID FOUNDATION	%	Function?
PURIFIED WATER	29.10%	Solvent
CYCLOPENTASILOXANE	15.80%
DIMETHICONE/PHENYLVINYLDIMETHICONE CROSSPOLYMER, DIPHENYLSILOXYPHENYLTRIMETHICONE	10.00%	Texture Improver
GLYCERIN	10.00%
PARAMETHOXYCINNAMATE2-ETHYLHEXYL	7.00%	UV Absorber
Polyglyceryl-20 Octadecabehenate/Hydroxystearate	5.00%	Thikening
Polyglyceryl-6 Polyricinoleate	5.00%	W/O Emulifier
IRON OXIDE DISPERSION	4.80%
Polyglyceryl-10 Decaisostearate	4.00%	Dispersion
SILICA	2.40%	Texture Improver
Polyglyceryl-6 Octastearate (and) Glyceryl Behenate	2.00%	Emulsification, stabilizing
PENTYLENE GLYCOL	2.00%
TITANIUM OXIDE DISPERSION	1.68%
DISTEARDIMONIUM HECTORITE	1.20%
PH BUFFER AGENT	q.s.
Total	99.98%

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Hi I had a little look at some formulations available on another Chemist Forum and it seems from my research (and by no means do I have the particular answers I though looking at these formulations may help you decide approx % for what is in the product you are looking at - but I think if you are a home formulator you would have little chance of sourcing all the ingredients - Anyway here are a few formulations for a Liquid Foundation, and a sunscreen w/o emulsion to view. I personally would not attempt to make a sunscreen even for myself - but out of interest check these out and see if it helps your question. Sorry have to do this in 2 sections as cant get 2nd table to work otherwise when I cut and paste. BTW I think the Alumina is part of a belnd that you would buy like this one which one formulation had at 25% of the total
C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate; Titanium Dioxide; Alumina; Polyhydroxystearic Acid; Isopropyl Titanium Triisostearate/ Triethoxycaprylylsilane Crosspolymer 

Ingredients	%	Function
Sunscreen w/o emulsion
ZINC OXIDE, DIMETHICONE, DIPHENYLSOLIOXY PHENYL TRIMETHICONE, DIMETHICONE.VINYL DIMETHICONE CROSSPOLYMER, POLYGLYCERYL-2 ISOSTEARTATE	24.00%	UV Filter
TITANIUM DIOXIDE, HYDRATED SILICA, ALUIMINUM HYDROXIDE, HYDROGEN DIMETHICONE, ETHYLHEXYL PALIMATE	16.00%	UV Filter
C12-15 ALKYL BENZOATE	11.00%	Texture Improver
PURIFIED WATER	10.75%	Solvent
GLYCERIN	10.00%
DIMETHICONE/PHENYL VINYL DIMETHICONE CROSSPOLYMER, DIPHENYLSILOXY PHENYLTRIMETHICONE	10.00%	Texture Improver
POLYGLCERYL-10-DECAISOSTEARATE	4.75%	Dispersion
Polyglyceryl-5 Polyricinoleate	5.00%	W/O Emulsifier
Polyglyceryl-20 OCTADECABEHATE/HYDROXYSTEARATE	3.00%	Dispersion
Polyglyceryl-6 Octastearate (and) Glyceryl Behenate	2.00%	Emulsiification, stabilizing
POLYMETHYL METHACRYLATE	2.00%	Texture Improver
PENTYLENE GLYCOL	1.50%
PH BUFFER AGENT	q.s.
Total	100.00%

[Squinny]

Ingredients to Die for - check them out. The largest is 50 lbs but you can buy more than 1 of each product. Have  a look at their website or ring them.
Stearyl Alcohol NF (ingredientstodiefor.com)

11110 Metric Blvd Ste D, Austin, TX 78758

+1 (512) 535-2711

[Squinny]

Hi I use Avery for my small range of products so I guess depends on what your needs are and if you plan to use online template etc and modify for your own use or if you are selling products may want something more professional. Avery have a few templates and easy to use their labels on your Canon printer. You just download the PDF once you have devised your label. They have a variety of sizes - I juts use a round label as it suits most of my lids etc and products I make are basically for myself. 

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Hi Juggsy - Here is the link for MySkinRecipes: Cosmetics - MySkinRecipes.com - So prices are in Thai Baht and conversion is approx $0.041 at moment so for instance $100 BHT = $4.02 AUD. There is a minimum shipping/packing fee is around 1050 BHT for a 500 g parcel so around $42 - Anyway have a look at the site as they have so many ingredients that you cant buy here (unless they have Trulux) and for me it worked out so much cheaper for everything I bought (13 ingredients - the most I bought of an ingredient was 500 g of TEC  (Note they sometimes use trade names instead of the INCI in the search engine so TEC is called Lipidsoft (TM) Deo for instance) which cost 595 BHT plus shipping so basically about $50 for 500 g whereas Trulux price for 500 g is $223.50 AUD + shipping - so you can see if you have a few products you want to buy or try very reasonable.
 Also (I am based in Cairns QLD) it only took around 10 days from time I ordered to delivery and it usually takes that for most ingredients i buy from Sydney or Sth QLD. ) They use DHL as carrier. Once you place your order you dont pay straight away and can amend it and get new shipping quotes if you think too expensive. I also asked them once I got my quote if they could do better on shipping cost and the quote came back cheaper so worth asking. Once you advise them on email you are going ahead with the order they send you a link to pay on Paypal (that’s the only way they accept payment for international shipping so you need to have Paypal Account which doesnt cost anything and you can link to your bank account, You can email in my inbox if you want o discuss more. I also buy lots of ingredients from New Directions (Based in Marrickville in Sydney) and they do smaller quantities of most products and if you are in Sydney I’m sure you could do pickup? Autsralian Wholesale Oils (Also in Sydney are great for Essential Oils and Carrier oils plus they also have basic Emulsifiers, Butters, Floral Waters etc). Also thsi place have some good products  Essential Oils Carrier Oils Cosmetic Ingredients Serums Creams Lotions – Escentials Of Australia 
Hope this helps and feel free to email me in my inbox if you want to chat or know more. Cheers - Nice sunny day here and 25 here in Cairns at moment

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Hi Juggsy where are you based? I find Trulux the most expensive company I have used and you may find if you shop around for TEC for example (I think Graillotion has a good place in USA for that and I have since found a place in Thailand for myself (I am based in Australia) that TEC costs 10% of what it would at Trulux and that includes shipping. So worth shopping around. 
Re the handcream maybe a barrier type cream would work better for your partner (depends why they are cracked?) and something with Anhydrous lanolin (if you arent opposed to such products).

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Graillotion said:

Squinny said:

FormulasNZ said:

Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue.  Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics.

Hi had a look at your website. Are the prices NZD? Also do you ship to Australia - I only buy small amounts so I’m talking 5 kg max for a parcel. If so how much is shipping or is all on website? I dont need anything right now but would consider for future purchases if you have products I need and cant source here if you ship to Australia. FYI I found that the place in Thailand Myskinrecipes were very good with good prices shipped to Oz (and very efficient service by airfreight with DHL) especially in comparison to Trulux Australia which are very expensive and not worth it IMO. 
Cheers

May I ask…. How long it took to get your order from MySkin…. after placing the order?  I have not yet ordered…. but plan to someday.

They were very quick - I did my order on 29th July and they emailed all the Data sheets etc to my email address that day. I got the shipping advice on 2nd Aug from DHL and tracking details etc on my mobile phone. On day of delivery 8th Aug I was advised by DHL that parcel would be delivered that day which it arrived just after noon that day and then had confirmation of delivery notification once delivered so all was very efficient. As I live in regional area I was pretty impressed - it takes longer most of the time for me to get a delivery from Sydney to Cairns. All was well packed and had the weights on each ingredient - some I had small amount of say 50 grams and they packed 51 g grams etc - so Yes I would definitely buy from them again. They answered all my queries on email and sometimes that would take a day but obviously they dont all speak English and they would have had to find out some of the information and then type back in English. Anyway good service in my opinion. Cheers

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FormulasNZ said:

Hi there, this is a very common problem, however there is a trend for second tier suppliers to start adding specialist ingredients.like ceramides etc….as MOQs become.more and more an issue.  Full disclosure -To this end I started a side business.with my wife called The Sourcery….www.thesourcery.co.nz
There are bound to be others also, as this is a global issue re MOQs and logistics.

Hi had a look at your website. Are the prices NZD? Also do you ship to Australia - I only buy small amounts so I’m talking 5 kg max for a parcel. If so how much is shipping or is all on website? I dont need anything right now but would consider for future purchases if you have products I need and cant source here if you ship to Australia. FYI I found that the place in Thailand Myskinrecipes were very good with good prices shipped to Oz (and very efficient service by airfreight with DHL) especially in comparison to Trulux Australia which are very expensive and not worth it IMO. 
Cheers

[Squinny]

What’s a “Daddy Blogger” called ? A “Bloke Blogger” perhaps??

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Ha ha love it Mark we have a tree here in Far North QLD Australia (yes joke) called a Thong tree that grow throngs to wear on your feet when walking on hot sand and they seem to do the trick hee hee Cheers
  
 Here is one of my partners:

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Ha totally agree Dr C. I feel sorry that some woman have to go to this level to make money - It cant be an easy thing to do. I know here in Australia that a few years ago Pole dancing for fitness was quite a thing! I prefer pilates and walking by the beach (which I do daily - the walking that is - when weather permits anyway)

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Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Have a new weirdo formula & I just finished it! 

A Pole Dancing grip glue, organic of course!! 

I seem to get all the pole dancers ha! 

Although, this guys wife just won Australia’s got talent & now has been sent to the finals of America’s got talent doing her pole dancing routine with the pole adhesive grip!! 

I hadnt seen this thread before and wow I havent laughed this much in ages so thanks all for lifting my day! Bit sad now though that I missed the Aussie Talent show - too funny (there are so many bad reality shows here now there’s little else on - TG for Netflix

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Love the word “Beegan” Mark did you make that word up? I really cant understand Vegans not eating honey after all the effort bees go to to produce it. Honey is a beautiful natural product and bees are not harmed in the process, its what they do amongst all the pollinating they do we couldn’t survive without them. Support bees I say and eat their honey and use their wax. Also they are classified as insects not animals right? 

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MarkBroussard said:

Anca_Formulator said:

@jemolian: thank you!! The lanolin replacement suggestion really helped. I can’t find it from my suppliers, but maybe orange peel wax would work too. 

I read that isononyl is rich and creamy, though I’ve never seen it. Is coco caprylate/caprate also rich and creamy? I thought it was light/medium. 

Are you also trying to stay Vegan?  If so, you might want to consider this:  Most all synthetic ingredients are Vegan, so it’s kind of a nonsensical term in the context of cosmetic products.  And, I laugh when I see ads for Vegan eyeshadow and mascara!  

I look at it this way:  The bees are not hurt at all by you using beeswax … they will make the beeswax regardless of whether or not it is used in a cosmetic product.  The sheep will be shorn regardless and they are not harmed in the process, so nothing wrong with Lanolin.  Beeswax and lanolin are great natural ingredients that outperform most other ingredients in certain applications.  So, I might suggest you open up your mind to ignoring Vegan as a qualifier in your product development.  

Totally agree with you Mark

[Squinny]

Thanks Mark I’ll do that in future as mine is over 500 kDa. 

[Squinny]

Thanks all appreciate the advice. I like to make my own (and the source of mine is mined from the Middle East). I find most commercial ones that I have bought for 5 times the cost of mine give me that tingling feeling and makes my skin itchy whereas mine doesnt. Anyway I like to use it and it is just for our family use. Cheers all