[Unknown Member]

You seriously sound shifty as h***.

What is wrong with you?

If it is important for you to claim coconut oil – then you need to use coconut oil. Hello.

Did you ever hear of honesty in formulating?

Also - if you are creating a product to claim moisturizing properties from “coconut oil” such as stating your product can moisturize the skin, create softer skin, or smoother skin, etc,

or anything beyond simply cleansing –

then you are creating a cosmetic.

If so – a cosmetic is federally required to have every ingredient listed,

and it is your *legally required federal responsibility* to list every ingredient correctly.

I suggest you give up until you gain some ethics.

[Unknown Member]

Jaws 🤣

[Unknown Member]

Hi, as every single human has a unique and individual microbiome , this “microbiome certification” statement literally doesn’t even make sense.

Either the client does not understand skin physiology and microbiology, and/or does not understand what a skin microbiome actually is, or both of the above.

This is a nonexistent impossibility to certify a product for skin microbiome.

Microbiomes can be good and bad, beneficial or problematic, etc. All unique.

Also, biomes can contain a lot of resident, yet undesirable negative microbes, such as yeasts, fungi, bacteria, lipid splitting microbes such as those causing Malasezzia, etc.

As you can easily see, there is no way to even put a narrow definition on the skin biome to “certify it”, let alone to identify it for marketing purposes.

Hope this info helps.

[Unknown Member]

Hi, I have actually had honey precipitate out of soln forming sharp sugar crystals.

You should remove the honey entirely just one batch and see if you still have precipitate forming.

That will tell you if it is the honey or not.

[Unknown Member]

@PhilGeis

Well, if nothing you’re straightforward. 🤓The man minces no words.

[Unknown Member]

Hi, whenever you use clay you must use a very fine screen mesh to sift it to avoid grit in your product.

Natural clays are very imperfect products - particle size wise.

Also, can I say, Kaolin smells absolutely horrible when it’s wet. (or even slightly damp)

I cannot imagine anyone is actually going to want it on their hair, to be very honest.

Just my opinion… although I do formulate with it all the time.

You absolutely must overcome the grittiness factor with fine screening, or I am sure people will complain about the grittiness in the end product.

Good Luck 🍀

[Unknown Member]

Hi Abdullah,

Yes to your question re: anything C:12.

Many people swear it breaks them out and when they stop using it their inflammation stops. It’s pretty cut and dried.

Also - regarding Oleic - It is believed by many (and research) that oils *higher in Oleic acid* can be problematic for acneic skin, seeming to exacerbate inflammation.

Ditto for Oleic causing problems for facial conditions such as:

Seborrheic dermatitis, Candida, Psoriasis, Malassezia [Pityrosporum folliculitis], etc.

Also, unfortunately, many people can have several skin conditions all at the same time.

(often unbeknownst to them)

They think their skin condition is all just from one problem. It is often not, and is rather a combination of several inflammatory skin conditions.

If you are formulating for any inflamed skin condition -

It is believed oils with a higher ratio of *Linoleic acid - versus - Oleic acid* are better tolerated by many people.

Here is a list of oils which have more beneficial ratios with a higher *Linoleic acid:Oleic acid* ratio.

• Almond
• Argan
• Black Cumin
• Evening primrose
• Grape seed
• Hemp
• Pumpkin
• Safflower
• Sunflower
• Sesame
• Sunflower

There are many people who swear that they FLARE up when they use higher Oleic oils in their skin care routine - and that the issue diminishes or actually STOPS - when they discontinue using said oil - **same for Lauric acid in Coconut oil for problem causer C:12.**

Some of these above oils can be expensive for formulating, I know - I am just giving you the entire list for your own knowledge base.

[Unknown Member]

Hi Luttie,

Are you not aware that lotion bars/ body bars have a standard recipe ratio of 1/3–1/3–1/3.

————————————————————-

Oil 1/3 any Oil

Butter 1/3 think Shea, Mango, etc

*Hard Butter or Bees Wax 1/3

This is a standard recipe for success.

You can see this “thirds ratio” recipe being made on a multitude of YouTube videos where you will see the bars turn out perfectly firm right before your eyes like magic.

This one thirds ratio recipe is really that simple.

**I don’t know if you’re purposefully leaving out the butter portion - but this is why it’s not setting up. There is no body in your formula to build up the bar.

It’s like making chocolate chip cookies with the hard chocolate chips and an oil - but leaving the flour out - so you have no substance or body to build your bar.

I really suggest next time you want to develop something you see what information is available first on the internet from reliable formulating resources and take it from there.

This step can save you a ton of time repeatedly reformulating and avoid lots of trial and error as you are experiencing.

I have literally never had a lotion bar not turn out.

For coconut oil just keep in mind it may get slightly soft above 76 or so. I have still never had a bar melt tho. I just use a harder butter like Kokum to firm it up.

I have made literally hundreds of bars of every oil/wax/butter combination possible and I have never had even one bar not set up.

Just stick to the thirds ratio for success.

The above recipe is super simple and will work for virtually any combination you can even think of. The 1/3–1/3–1/3 ratio is foolproof. I promise. Good luck 🍀

[Unknown Member]

Hi, Yes! Soapberries

also known as soap nuts. They are fruits of several shrubs in the <em style=”background-color: var(-bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(-bb-body-text-color); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;”>Sapindus genus.

Soap berries contain saponins, similar to soap and surfactants.

They and are commonly used as laundry or dishwashing detergent.

[Unknown Member]

Hi, 40% Urea is actually the standard concentration.

There are no percentage regulations.

Anyone can make it, buy it, sell it.

It’s just a simple moisturizer/keratolytic.

FD&C info:

Zero rrequirements as to concentrations or cosmetic ingredients – except for listing lakes.

I could literally pick pine needles off my pine trees, grind them into powder, call it a mask and market it. (and people do … 🤨)

USDA FD&C regulations basically only deal with fair packaging and labeling aspects for consumers. Not the ingredients. Go figure.

That’s it.

Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act)

and

the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA)

[Unknown Member]

Hi FVDK, kk got you. Sounds like a great hair project.

Have you maybe considered caprylic and capric MCT’s - they are still saturated and are rock stable and will not easily oxidize.

Also highly heat stable.

Is this for a rinse-off or leave-on?

I would still watch out for Oleic if leave-on…

best ⛄️ (still cold here:)

[Unknown Member]

@ketchito Hi, PUFA’s are strongly anti inflammatory through multiple biochemical pathways. They are like liquid miracles for the skin, like urea and alantoin and glycerin. 🙂

They also modify biochemical cellular messaging by multiple modalities.

Beyond amazing.

Topical administration of PUFA’s has been demonstrated to terminally enter the systemic circulation.

There is a ton of research available. Here is an article addressing both dietary and topical administration.

(I am a licensed skin care provider, also with a formal university medical sciences /chemistry education and I use oils for everyyyything in skin care.)

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/health-disease/skin-health/essential-fatty-acids

[Unknown Member]

Hello, it’s a simple OTC.

Also available on Amazon – anyone can buy.

[Unknown Member]

Hello, I’m not sure what you’re trying to formulate but I just wanted to mention if you are concerned about oxidative stability -

I just wanted to mention a few whole (not fractionated) oils and butters to you.

The following are rocksolid stable:

Jojoba oil is incredibly stable - even under high heat conditions.

Also, don’t forget good old coconut oil – it is literally rock solid when it comes to stability.

Kokum butter is also incredibly stable, as is Cocoa butter.

However, for addressing skin care problems - formulations with polyunsaturated oils are technically the most effective.

Unfortunately they are also the most susceptible to oxidation and also the most expensive. But you can bump that time up with tocopherols.

However, if you are attempting to address a serious skin repair problem you really need to consider utilizing them.

I know you already said you only plan on using saturated FFAs but I just wanted to throw that in there. Good Luck 🍀

[Unknown Member]

Sorry, do not know what happened with all the gibberish … for Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes) regarding cause of acne.

[Unknown Member]

Yes, your product could have directly induced acne.

Lauramidopropyl betaine is the major component of cocamidopropyl betaine.

*CAPB contains a medium chain fatty acid [C:12 ] which has been proven to feed specific bacteria residing upon the skin in some individuals.*

There are certain people who are very sensitive to C:12 as it can cause their skin great distress with breakouts.

The inflammation these clients experience is directly due to an inflammatory reaction to the specific fatty acid profile of C:12.

It is *not (hormonal or “common”) acne per se - although many clients claim and believe it is.

However, it technically is not.

Acne is caused by excessive hormonal androgenic/testosterone dysregulation and is often associated with inflammatory conditions caused mainly from colonization of the bacteria <em style=”background-color: var(-bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(-bb-body-text-color); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;”>Propionibacterium acnes (<em style=”background-color: var(-bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(-bb-body-text-color); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;”>P. acnes).

This is well documented.

The bottom line is many individuals are sensitive to C:12 and will immediately “break out” as soon as their resident facial bacteria began feeding upon the fatty acids - causing inflammation.

You should eliminate the CAPB for best results and reformulate.

[Unknown Member]

Hello, as a licensed skincare professional I will inform you that your best bet for a “two-step” cleansing process is to have the first step be exclusively only oil-based.

Oil is highly effective in removing most make up.

(And let me tell you, women can really layer it on.)

An oil applied with a cotton pad for the first step will often remove a majority of the make up.

As well, most women love seeing alllll that make up come off on the cotton pad in just a few swipes across their face. 🙂

It just makes it seem super, super effective.

Which it is.

I would blend a few inexpensive oils since it is not a leaven -on product.

(this is actually what I use for myself)

Fractionated coconut oil is a great start for 50% of the formulation, as it is very affordable and also is easily accessible.

Safflower is also excellent to blend in, as is Sesame oil.

Oil as a first step in double cleanse really, really works.

This also entirely eliminates the problem of having skin feel too dry and too tight if you were to double cleanse with only surfactants twice in a row.

Also, this formulation is all natural and no preservative needed.

Literally a major win-win.

[Unknown Member]

Hello, hope this may be some helpful info for you:

From your post title “FRACTIONATED COCONUT OIL VS CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDES VS MEDIUM CHAIN TRIGLY”

These are actually only one product, and not three products as you have summarized.

Please know CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDES VS MEDIUM CHAIN TRIGLY”- - - these are the same.

Caprylic and capric triglycerides *are medium chain triglycerides. (just not all of them)

So it is not caprylic and capric triglycerides “vs” medium chain triglycerides.

Because caprylic and capric triglycerides are medium chain triglycerides.

And caprylic and capric triglycerides are from fractionated coconut oil. [Reference: INCI]

Because to get only those two specific fatty acids – coconut oil has to have been fractionated in order to separate them out.

So it is also fractionated coconut oil.

Also, an answer to your second question – MCT *is* CCT per INSI. They are the *same.

——————————————————————

Moving on …

Medium chain triglycerides consist of the following various carbon chain lengths of fatty acids:

• C6: caproic acid or hexanoic acid
• C8: caprylic acid or octanoic acid
• C10: capric acid or decanoic acid
• C12: lauric acid or dodecanoic acid

These are the “medium” chains.

To be specific - “MCT” oil on the food market may contain any composition of any these medium chain fatty acids. [not only caprylic and capric acids as INCI states.]

This is because INCI specification is only for cosmetic products – and the oil termed MCT is mainly marketed for food.

So, despite INCI defining MCT oil as “caprylic/capric triglycerides” - in reality many food market MCT oils have also included either C:6 or C:12 or both - along with caprylic C:8 and capric C:10 triglycerides, as well. So all four medium chain fatty acids.

For food marketing purposes, however, MCT oil is most commonly termed just that - and not fractionated coconut oil. [even though it is]

Fractionated coconut oil - on the other hand - as per INCI - also contains (only) caprylic and capric fatty acids - ***hence, the same INCI as MCT oil.**

This is also the exact same as the “CCT vs MCT” question you asked.

These are not different oils – under INCI these are ALL the exact same. As is fractionated coconut oil. As is caprylic/ capric triglyceride. As is MCT. As is CCT. ALL the SAME.

Frequently you will hear many (many) people claiming these various oil names are miscategorised, or are incorrectly referenced or that people are “wrongly” interchanging the names.

This actually is not true.

The people stating these claims are actually the ones who are wrong.

In INCI - these oils are one and the same because they are the same caprylic and capric triglycerides. Period.

INCI is not considering MCT to be a food item (as consumers currently do) because INSI only refers to substances used in cosmetics.

So on the food market – an MCT oil can have any combination the manufacturer desires of any of the medium chain triglycerides. It is not under INCI - it can create its coconut oil however it wants.

But for INCI/CAS - MCT, CCT and caprylic/capric triglycerides and fractionated coconut oil are one and are ALL the same description.

They are all coconut oil.

They are all fractionated.

They all select caprylic and capric triglycerides. (MCT food market oil … maybe more)

The MCT designation is merely a marketing standpoint from the food and beverage industry.

MCT oil is the term most often referred to in marketing for food consumption and keto/weight loss diets,

where

fractionated coconut oil is the term most often referred to for skincare and cosmetic formulation.

The fact is they are both fractionated oils from coconut oil. It’s that simple. 🥳

Hope this helps!

[Unknown Member]

PS - Coursera has great chemistry classes you can take for free, for people like you who are wanting to get into formulating, but lack basic chemistry knowledge.

I can tell from a few of your questions you asked you lack basic foundational concepts in beginning chemistry.

Coursera has great courses for beginners in science and lots of classes are often free!

I have had many students state the classes were super helpful.

A basic chemistry class will increase your knowledge so you can understand, for example, that INCI cosmetic MCT oil is the exact same as CCT oil, since you asked the difference between the two. (in INCI there is none)

I thought to mention Coursera to you as a means for you to gain a basic chemistry background to help you better understand the chemistry of cosmetic formulating. Aloha 🌸