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ngarayeva001 said:

Use esters. Isopropyl Myristate (aka IPM) is easy to find, cheap and has a dry feel. Replace half of your oils with it and your product won’t be greasy. C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate is another good option (heavier than IPM). Esters are great.

ngarayeva001 said:

Use esters. Isopropyl Myristate (aka IPM) is easy to find, cheap and has a dry feel. Replace half of your oils with it and your product won’t be greasy. C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate is another good option (heavier than IPM). Esters are great.

do you mean 50/50 opils and Isopropyl myristate?REALY,?

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Gunther said:

Any film on skin can work as an anti-pollution barrier.

You can devise a test where you apply a petrolatum or silicone containing skin cream, then spray some dilute acids (or other chemicals) to mimic acid rain
The petrolatum or silicone film should lessen the skin damage.

No animal testing please.

Vaseline can be used as protection against chemical irritation (detergents, cleaning agents)

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sory i mean 5%

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EVchem said:

@Perry @MarkBroussard - The full study is in Korean, but the tables are in english and  you can see they are using 1:1 ratio. I  can’t read Korean so I don’t know the MW of the HA.

Tangentially related, are we comparing glycerin to true Hyaluronic Acid? We exclusively buy Sodium hyaluronate. I know there’s some kind of equilibrium in solution, just wondering  if companies are really buying as HA.

thanks

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dehyquart c4046

*Edit - INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Dipalmitoylethyl Hydroxyethylmonium Methosulfate (and) Ceteareth-20

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except water and urea

50%

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peg40

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Perry said:

@MarkBroussard - I agree it’s part of the NMF and certainly within living cells hyaluronic acid does things that glycerin doesn’t do. It’s a molecule produced by cells and involved in metabolism.

But when delivered topically from a skin care product, what specifically does Hyaluronic acid do that glycerin doesn’t do?  Consider whatever grade would do the most different thing.

I agree with you not because I have tried or compared

But when the price of the product exceeds the limit I know that it is about marketing

Like that argan oil

  And Aloe Vera

My father, who was born in 1931 and died in 1999

He knew and told me that ,aloe vera had an effect ,on the skin.

How much is the price of aloe vera today ???

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you can use soapcalc and change some products

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try this you would forget all your receips

Almond oil   220  gr

Coconut oil  118

Olive oil
107

Coca butter  107

Shea butter
  82

Casto oil
51

Avocado oil  15

NAOH   93 gr

Water  205 gr

Total 998 gr

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ngarayeva001 said:

Well here is a deal with consumers, although there are ingredients that are proven to have skin benefits, not many want to use them. Take retinol as an example, for it to work work, it should be at a concentration that will cause irritation and peeling. A consumer should wait for a couple of months until the skin overcomes that shock. And I am not even talking about prescription tretinoin. Not too many people want to have patchy skin for 2-3 months. They just want a promise, hope in a jar, and those plant extracts create a story. Personal responsibility is key.

But saying that your sulfate-based shampoo is natural is not the same as saying that aloe vera gel soothes the skin. The first is simply not true, the second is a matter of perception (that gel is cold it creates a calming feeling on irritated skin). Do you see the difference?

ok thanks
this perception develops

first the gel is cold it creates a calming feeling on irritated skin

and after after a while he becomes

anti irritation a moment after Completely eliminates …..

did you see our dean( PHARMA) what he said about plant extracts

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MarkBroussard said:

smok said:

what can you do if live in country who evryone says my product is natural and without parbens and presevatives??

@smok:

The whole notion of your argument is that you think that your competitors are advertising that they do not use parabens and preservatives and you are using that as justification for saying your products are natural when you know they are not.

Do you actually have evidence that your competitors are in fact using parabens and no preservation?

Regardless, this is not justification in any way for your own false advertising.  In fact, it is a marketing opportunity for you to prove that you are truly natural … oh, let me correct that … you can’t claim truly natural because your products are not all natural … you just falsely advertise them as such.  Nix that idea.

To answer your question:  Be honest in your advertising … it’s real simple

even those who use natural raw materials like plant extracts that have no efectscosmetique it’s liars

Maybe you are  one of them but I will not sue you

Because I have no right to do so

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ngarayeva001 said:

Anyone can make cosmetic products as long as they only use them on themselves.

There is another angle to this. Demand creates supply, not the other way around. Consumers don’t want to buy petrolatum, glycerin and lanolin emulsion. They want “the miracle broth” (ref to Creme de La Mer). There are plenty of ways to sell cosmetics without lying to customers. For example, Lush call their cosmetics “handmade”. Their formula’s look like examples from Harry’s 8th edition dated 2000. TEA stearate and parabens, yet customers love it. My point is you don’t need to lie to the customer and call your product natural. Natural skincare is like 15% of the market. 

what can you do if live in country who evryone says my product is natural and without parbens and presevatives??

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i wanted to say e all should not be making cosmetic products” 
i do not making adulterated products i use sles in my shampoo like every one in the world and i wrhite  i dont say it is a synthetic product

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i wanted to say we all we should not be making cosmetic products 
i do not make  adulterated products i only use sles in my sahmpoo and write natural product

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WE ARE ALL DANGEROUS 
 and we should not be making cosmetic products 
even who d’ont writes on their packages 100% they try To convince the people that the  syntehtics products  is good for the health and  no has an undesirable efect on our  health

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thanks dear

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Pharma said:

I did work for small joint projects with cosmetics industries during my post-doc. We tested plant extracts in in vitro assays such as cancer cell lines and enzymatic arrays. Stupid thing was, and that was “openly” (in-house) communicated, that they were looking for good in vitro data supporting claims such as antioxidant, cancer prevention, inhibition of enzyme X and Y but in a second step had to show that the active constituents of said extracts neither did penetrate skin nor show any in vivo effects. Doing research with cosmetics, as good and unbiased as it may be, using “pixie dust” as such claim ingredients were called, is utter nonsense. I quit university research because it’s as money driven as everything else on this planet. Publish or perish; if you want funding, publish where you can get attention and where $$$ are. To do so, simply run an additional half-hearted test showing cancer related effects and end your conclusion section with a statement “Promising compound X is possibly active against cancer cells but this requires further research”. F*** that! I already did 50% of my PhD for free because they stopped funds due to my findings being not according to plan (the name of the inhibited enzyme is unpronounceable and the effect competed against their own already marketed product -> an advertisement nightmare = project is dead).

In cosmetics, since it is not about scientific effects but about hopes and dreams, it’s even worse! For most applications, there is no point in doing proper research, let alone good one. Make a product, run a comparison in-house against whatever you desire, sell it and if consumers love it (consumer acceptance is very often highly correlated to publicity) then you sell more, else push out a “new and better” formula and switch out the marketing team.

If you want a real effect, get a prescription and throw in some pills and if you want eternal youth, register at cryonics.

and after a while the word “X is possibly” becomes Significant results
after a while Good results and finaly Extraordinary results

me too

in recent years ,I have to lie to sell my shampoo

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what is your material using to mix
you add first sulphonic and you neutralise

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thank you perry
is it really 
does it have an effect with product that rinses like shampoo ?

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Pharma said:

Okay, tons of olives is already something most don’t have 🙂 .

Do you process these to oil yourself? Ask around in your neighbourhood who can fractionate/distillate/refine (olive) oil. The required by-product is olive oil deodorised distillate (= OODD, you might also be able to source it directly from an oil refinery). OODD is highly enriched in squalane and serves as main starting material for further isolation/purification steps which do vary depending on available equipment, cost, batch size etc. HERE some reading, although a scientific publication, it’s not too techy/nerdy.

Another strategy is to simply use the OODD directly since it contains a bunch of other goodies. Might be worth to have it analysed so you know +/- what’s in there .

what exctly  IS OODD?

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Gunther said:

Can you buy Cetrimonium chloride (CETAC) there?
If you do, then you can try something like

2.5% active CETAC (8.33% if supplied as 30% active)
3.5% fatty alcohol (cetyl, stearyl or cetostearyl)
1% Silicone
Polytraumatismes and other conditioning agents as needed.

The fatty alcohol should thicken it.

thank you Gunther
Polytraumatismes More or less than cetac ?

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Pharma said:

Or they sell it under a synonym?

Myristyl myristate is similar (not the same, though!) whilst for other applications, waxes can be used as replacement.

What is the reason you add cetyl palmtate? What does it do in your lotion? What would you like your lotion to be if you could choose an improvement? What is not acceptable as a new effect?

It seems to me that you are the most one in us who knows what the role of this product

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Gunther said:

ngarayeva001 said:

@Gunther 

INCI	%
Aqua	80.5%
Amodimethicone (emulsion)	5.0%
PEG-8 Dimethicone	7.0%
Polyquat 7	1.5%
Glycerin	3.0%
Polyquat 10	1.0%
Cetrimonium Chloride (30%)	1.0%
Germaben II	1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

Maybe some extra CETAC can further lower the viscosity?
How much net active Amodimethicone the emulsion contains?

Interesting formula. I will try replicating it.
I’m surprised that so much PQ-10 doesn’t leave a sticky residue on hair. But at the end you have to try the formula yourself.

ngarayeva001 said:

@Gunther 

INCI	%
Aqua	80.5%
Amodimethicone (emulsion)	5.0%
PEG-8 Dimethicone	7.0%
Polyquat 7	1.5%
Glycerin	3.0%
Polyquat 10	1.0%
Cetrimonium Chloride (30%)	1.0%
Germaben II	1.0%

Very conditioning spray. I even think I need to make it less conditioning because it’s not easy to apply like that.

I think it’s the same product Cetrimonium Chloride Amodimethicone 
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Amodimethicone_p_975.html?locale=en

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Gunther said:

Cetrimonium or behentrimonium is needed both as a hair conditioner, and as en emulsifier for cetyl alcohol.

I actually tried making a clear, no fatty-alcohol spray leave-on conditioner and somehow it doesn’t feel as conditioning as those with fatty alcohols.
I wonder why, but that’s why I found.

Once you have a proper emulsifier you can add silicones, or coconut oil for leave-on conditioners.

If you can find Polyquaternium-10, that’s way more conditioning than PQ-7 but make sure it doesn’t increase viscosity too much.

we can increase viscosity with other product 

righte ?