[simflyer905]

I am also interested in the answer to this question with my hair product.  One tip was that high PH can cause foaming, so I have tried reducing PH using citric acid.   It did not make a big difference however.  I also tried adjusting my mixing (lower RPM, setting the blade deeper in the beaker), and keeping my temperature as low as possible just to melt ingredients.   

Apparently silicones (Dimethicone) work to kill foam, but they can’t be added at any higher than 50 degrees celcius.   Not sure how to use them when going to 80 and beyond.

[simflyer905]

Great advice, and correlates exactly with what I experienced going from 1 to 4.  Product came out thicker, likely due to the water loss.   It took 4 times as long to heat to required temps!

[simflyer905]

The PVP created a stickyness which I didn’t like for my gel/wax formulation, but try it and share the results!

[simflyer905]

Also need some advice on reducing air bubbles, as I had a few in the final (dried) product…   more or less of an ingredient, or less vigorous stirring?   

[simflyer905]

I bet you’d all like to know how I made out in my quest to replicate this product with no chemistry experience!    It came out very close to the original!  

Here’s the very short list of ingredients which match the original.  I had to sub in Cet-25 for Cet-30, and found a heat stable preservative:

1. Distilled water and Glycerin heated to 80 degrees while being mixed.
2. Peg-7 and Ceteareth-25 added to mix, while stirring.
3. Once mix became clear and less viscous, added in Mineral oil.
4. Few drops of PhenoxyEthanol (preservative) added

*all ingredients are cosmetic grade

Let cool to 70 degrees Celsius and then poured into a container to cool.  The magical gel/wax like emulsion was set in about 45 mins.   Surprisingly, it has an identical texture and feel to the original product.   I was blown away, because I really had winged this. 

Observations:

- Adding in the CET-25 too quickly forms big blobs which I had to manually stir and break up before I could allow the magnetic stirrer to resume.   Will try introducing more slowly next time, or using some of the distilled water in a separate container to pre-dissolve the CET-25 then introduce that mixture instead.

- I had the beaker directly on the hot plate, which I know should be replaced by a double boiler with water surrounding the beaker.   May try that next time, as the temp got out of control and got up to 88.  

- To match the original product, I need the gel/wax emulsion to be more stiff and requiring more force to rub between the fingers.  Can I simply reduce the water content to achieve this?   

- The Magnetic stirrer/hot plate is so helpful.   I’m so glad I spent the money to get one.   It has a bar that holds the temp probe just perfectly in the beaker.   I have this website to thank for that.  The section on how to setup a cosmetics lab was very helpful.

- the final product has no scent (virtually). 

Some questions for the more experienced chemists/members:

Could I add a drop of essential oil at these temperatures and how would it affect the product?  I am afraid that this method of natural fragrance might contaminate the product or accelerate spoilage in some way.  

If someone can help me understand how increasing/decreasing each chemical will alter the final product I would be very interested to hear. 

If I wanted to make this product stable when exposed to UV light (in a clear container), what could I add, and would it be safe?  

Thx.

[simflyer905]

I am having a hard time finding a preservative that can tolerate hot temperatures.  Germaben and Germaplus II need to be added in at 50 degrees or cooler.   The formulas for gel wax I’ve seen call for heating as high as 80 degrees.  Any recommendations?

[simflyer905]

Bill_Toge said:

7 and 8 are also part of Kathon CG (or one of its numerous knock-offs), as they are the stabilisers for the preservative; incidentally, that preservative is wholly unsuitable for this product as it’s temperature-sensitive and the product needs to be filled hot, which means the preservative will slowly be destroyed during the filling process

Thanks Bill, I appreciate your input.  Would it be possible to substitute a broad spectrum preservative like Germall plus (or something that can tolerate higher temps) and effectively eliminate ingredients 7-10 ?  That would simplify my efforts to obtain all these ingredients.  I’m guessing the preservative isn’t going to mess too much with the overall consistency of the product given that only a drop or two will go into my test cooks.   I noticed the original manufacturer occasionally shipped out dried-out product, which was useless.  I wonder what was causing that.   Could be why they shut down.

Thanks for the advice on the mineral oil.   I will see what I can find that is pharma grade.  I don’t want any scent.

You mentioned this will be most challenging - what aspects?   Finding the right consistency, temps, stirring, cook time, etc?  

Lastly, what am I attempting to make here?  Oil in Water emulsion or Water in oil emulsion?   You mentioned this is water based.

many thx

A.

[simflyer905]

Perry said:

9 & 10 - this is a blend of preservatives called Kathon CG

This seems incredibly hard to obtain and expensive.  Are you aware of an alternative ?    Given that I’m making this for personal use, can I get away with leaving out a preservative?  Or perhaps introducing some other inert chemical that has similar qualities? 

thanks!

[simflyer905]

Thanks for the responses so far.   I will try substituting Ceteareth-25 for Cet-30, as it’s easier to get.   Can anyone tell me what I can use for Paraffinum Liquidium?   Apparently it’s just mineral oil, but what kind?   I can buy mineral oil on Amazon.

I was able to find a hair wax formulation from what appears to be a chemical company, but not sure how closely it will align to the product I am trying to replicate….. any thoughts?  Some ingredients are the same.   Here is a link to the PDF file of the formulation sheet, along with cook instructions:

https://www.cossma.com/fileadmin/all/cossma/Archiv/Formulations2015/COS1512_DSMWax.pdf

thanks for any help.  I have no chemist experience or background.  I work in I.T !