Sibech
Forum Replies Created
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@ngarayeva001 who needs “natural” anyway? - it’s performance inferior, it demonizes safe synthetics and arguably less safe as extracts are rarely well defined or toxicologically studied
if anything good is to be made about the “fresh and handmade” claim it is that using a “value added” claim from positives instead of the regular “without toxic chemical XYZ and chemicals all together” (even though they might did that as well)
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@mikethair I Don’t spend most of my time in the production I do troubleshooting with them, pilot plant scale ups, formulating and regulatory stuff.
I am certain that you are right about them being more than subpar, but please enlighten me;
Besides dressing.
Lack of cleaning (or easy access to doing so based).
raw material storage
And Allowing non-trained personnel in the production facility (which is also extremely cluttered and likely hazardous.)Can you assert as being against GMP from that video?
As for how they get away:
it it might just be regulators rarely doing a GMP audit but who knows? -
Luckily for their customers most of the products shown are of low microbial risk.
@ngarayeva001 good luck with the re-education of consumers, for some reason interest groups are deemed more trustworthy than “big beauty”
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@Chemist77 & @AVisotsky It would translate to “The mentor’s”. The more you know I suppose?
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@ngarayeva001 is right on the preservatives.And to add to the “conditioning shampoo” is not a thing that can actually be made with real soap. In order to be conditioning, you need a surfactant/emollient that is cationic (positively charged), which as it turns out is, due to basic chemistry, not compatible with anionic (negatively charged) soap.
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While I don’t necessarily agree with the clothing, lack of hairnets and face masks not to mention raw materials literally standing on the floor.
I am unsure of how this video indicate multiple breaches of ISO 22716:1007(E)?
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My previous post display why I rarely post from my phone, damn autocorrect.
You mention** -
@AVisotsky you mentorens it yourself here, you are looking out for potential allergens, which are not the same as sensitive skin.
@Microformulation has a point in the high pH stripping all oil from the skin leaving it slightly more vulnerable to irritants and allergens.
@ngarayeva001 also has a point in essential oils as allergens.
As much as it is unnatural you would likely be better of with a syndet bar with a lower pH and a perfume formulated without known skin sensitizers.
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Sensitive skin is actually really hare to predict. By definition it’s an exaggerated reaction to certain chemicals, however which chemicals may vary. The reaction typically manifests as an irritant contact dermatitis.
In addition there is the trouble of what does your consumer understand as being for sensitive skin? a lot of consumers think allergic and sensitive skin products are formulated the same way - which is not correct.
Do product testing to find out if the sensitive skin claim is suitable. To find a population of people with sensitive skin you can use a questionnaire such as the one presented in here https://www.medicaljournals.se/acta/content_files/download.php?doi=10.2340/00015555-1870 or lactic acid sting testing. (10% lactic acid smeared on the altar grove of one side and water on the other side. People with sensitive skin tend to have a much faster and stronger reaction to the lactic acid application).
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@O12 a few questions for clarification; what do you mean when you say “peeling effect” is it an exfoliating (actual skin starting to peel) or the product creating a film that peels of the skin?
The Aloe Ferox Leaf Extract you have, what brand is it?
Is the aloe supplied as a powder and if yes what level of up-concentration is it?I presume you are talking about the product peeling off the skin, this is probably because a very high concentration of aloe, which doesn’t act particularly well as a film-former. A lot of aloe extracts are supplied at high strengths (200x is a common one). so using 20% of such a powder will give some level of thickening due to sugar concentration, but it won’t sit nicely on the skin.
I would check the concentration of the aloe extract - adjust the recipe so it’s equivalent to no more than 5x strength (I personally feel it gets sticky after that level), then try again with the Solagum AX at 1.5-2.5%
And out of curiosity, why Aloe Ferrox Mill. and not Aloe Barbadensis Mill. ? -
@Microformulation correctly pointed out that it is not nanotechnology. The key thing to keep in mind for nanotechnology is particle size (definitions differ from in between locations and regulations the EU defines nano materials, as used in cosmetics, as an insoluble or biopersistant and intentionally manufactured material with one or more external dimensions, or an internal structure, on the scale from 1 to 100 nm).
@ngarayeva001 You have already recieved great answers and this contribute nothing to formulation or dermal efficacy.
I would increase the scepticism. I just looked at their “Reviews” where you have to input a name - yet all reviewers decided to go with a full name some including middle names or abbreviations - in addition, all 39 are 5 stars, seems off to me.
So under “The Science” they also have a “Study” (I am using my quotation-quota too fast in this reply) which, not only is not a study but a high school report on the skin - it also blatantly plagiarise from textbooks (Took a random paragraph from page 12 and googled it, the exact paragraph is from Encyclopedia of Biomaterials and Biomedical Engineering, Second Edition, which by the way does not even feature on the reference list).
As a non-american, what kind of false advertising on cosmetics can be reported to the FTC? Because in my humble opinion the appear out of line in regard to honesty/truthfullness (even within cosmetics).
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@ngarayeva001 It’s great to take the safety of your products seriously, and while there is a hazard in cytotoxicity, there is not necessarily a risk.
as @perry said when he linked the article:
Of note…”Depending on type and concentration, they exhibit cytotoxic effects on living cells…”Think of it this way (overly simplified) Hazard x Exposure = Risk.
If you take 1 drop of essential oil directly onto the skin, you are likely to experience irritant contact dermatitis (in part due to cytotoxicity) but if that same drop is diluted in a cup of oil, that drop is perfectly safe to use because the exposure is much less.
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Seeing as peroxide’s are more reactive and sensitizing (limonene is a great example) retesting is a must in my opinion.
There might not be a single best way of doing so, if retesting the essential oil Ineouls hold it against the CofA from when you recieved the batch. And run the same tests If possible. Otherwise I think, Depending on the machinery you have available, I would either do a GC-MS or a iodometric peroxide value titration. However both of them need a baseline of what the unexpired Essential oil has as mEq value (as these may differ a lot from Oil to oil and likely batch to batch)
http://www.graveslab.org/lab-resources/procedures/peroxide-quantification-via-iodometric-titration
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@Gunther Having no experience with actual soap bars (neither using nor producing) I wonder, why have you not added any glycerin to the composition, which would be present from the saponification of triglycerides?Edit: clarification
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@Oladoo The short answer is No.The slightly longer answer is: There are no well-performed studies indicating that garlic oil or extract may help on hair growth. Most of the studies are single-armed and it is tough to truly blind if people are smearing garlic on the skin (same issue with all aromatherapy studies).If you still demand to remain hopeful (or try to get funding for a research project) most of the studies are performed on people with alopecia areata, this effect is hypothesized in the (again poorly performed and poorly reported) articles to be caused by immunomodulating properties of diallyl disulfide or allicin.@Gunther By the look of it, the study was to create new follicle germs (ready to go into the neogen phase by using oxygen permeable dimethicone the substrate allowed the cells to self-assembly without interfering. Not really creating hair growth in existing follicles.Interesting paper none the less imagine getting a full head of hair again, without “repurposing” androgenic hair but implanting newly formed follicles.A ted talk about regrowing organs.
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I think getting the actual concentrations of each component for correctly labelling on relative concentration.This would particularly be of concern if you were, for instance, making a lotion with lecithin as one of the emulsifiers.Of course this concern would be entirely irrelevant if no ingredients are repeated in the formulation and no more than 1% is used.I would, however, be careful as some countries may allow for labelling exemptions of deliberately added ingredients for various reasons (such as a low concentration, carry-over) which in cosmetics should strictly speaking be added to the label.
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Isn’t “oatmeal milk” just a water-extract (maceration) of oatmeal?In that case it would be Aqua and Avena Sativa Extract (Oat) Meal Extract (or Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract)
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@dtdang what exactly is your question?
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@majman I think you might listen to belassi, I personally never managed to stabilize green tea, the it oxidizes easily and even autooxidates.
I even read an article with the EGCg Dimer activating the same receptor as chili peppers do.
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@Majman, what most newcomers to formulating are unaware of it is impossible to accurately predict how much preservative is needed for any one formula. Simply because there are so many variables. a single preservative may not even be sufficient as not all microorganisms are targeted by each preservative.
That is why a preservative efficacy test (also known as a challenge test) is performed.
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@ngarayeva001 as paracelsus said and I paraphrase, everything is a poison, there is nothing that is not a poison, only the dose makes the poison.
so basically yes, the toxicity of a compound is generally dose dependent, but not necessarily linearly so.As for hydroquinone, It is carcinogenic (cat 2 according to the european CLP legislation)
https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/Hydroq_122014_FAR%20.pdf -
@scelce if you want to reduce the pH don’t just add the citric acid in bulk.
I don’t know how precise your balance is, but by the sound of it you would likely be better off making a citric acid solution, then slowly adjust with the solution until the desired pH and add water for the remaining percentage.
As for making the product “better”, I can’t come with a lot of suggestions as I don’t know how your formula performs.
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@Bill_Toge Good to know!
I was thinking more in the line of suggesting some other glycols, pentylene glycol for instance, not glycerin.
The one time I had issues with Euxyl PE 9010 I added a bit more ethylhexylglycerin (can’t remember the concentration) and that did the trick.
Unfortunately, that does not entail 5-6 dozen of products - Yet
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Yes, the citric acid should be considered part of the 100%
Bump it to 1% and retest, you could (if it isn’t too expensive for your budget) do one at a lower concentration (still higher than 0.5) to use as little as possible.Remember to produce in GMP, EUXYL PE 9010 reacts with the bacteria and therefore a reduction of the activity is to be expected.
When it is used in heavily contaminated products loss of active ingredient must be taken into account -
No, Euxyl has a wide range - but reducing the pH may improve the preservation.
The choice of additional preservatives is limited based on pH - for instance most organic acids require a pH of less than 5.
The quickest choice would be parabens (they are safe!)