[Sibech]

@Bill_Toge I completely agree, of course, it is impossible to say for certain as it is evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Having a solvent in a cream base makes no sense however and if someone were to report them their local competent authority I am certain we would see it on Rapex/”Safety Gate”.

@Dynamin have you considered if you should just have the drug produced as a tablet/solution for drinking instead, seems easier. (I am disregarding possible patents).

[Sibech]

Dynamin said:

Bill_Toge said:

Microformulation said:

DMSO is not generally used in Cosmetics. It is also not as innocuous as many believe.

and that’s why it’s been banned in European cosmetics since 1979

If it has been banned, there sure are a lot of UK outlets selling it:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=dmso+site:.co.uk&lr=&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwvbeNncbgAhXDyoMKHXM2BAUQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=551

And this was before BREXIT of course

@Dynamin Strictly speaking they are not selling it as cosmetics, and since it’s written as a chemical it does not fall under the cosmetic regulation but REACH and CLP (possibly others too) in the EU.

As for the “But others are doing it, that does not mean it is legal nor that you should.

[Sibech]

@Dynamin What would they have been sued for? You cannot sue a properly labelled solvent, which the end-user abused, can you? (I don’t know, I am not an attorney nor am I based in the US).

[Sibech]

 @dynamin Notice how they all write: Intended for use as a solvent only (or something to that effect), that is likely there in the hope it will keep them out of legal issues when using DMSO.

While standing with what I previously wrote, another option for a penetration enhancer Tetrahydropiperine, which will likely increase the bioavailability of your vitamins.

Fair warning, keep an eye out for regulations. As @m@Microformulation mentioned you get close to a Drug in the US. You may also Borderline Drug/Medical Device in the EU.

[Sibech]

The answer is more or less nothing.
There is a reason most things which need systemic access are formulated to be injected or ingested.

First of all different chemicals can function as a penetration enhancer, but they may not increase the penetration for the same molecule.

minerals (ie metals we need) are inherently ionic and you will not get any of them absorbed through the skin no matter what you try.

Some vitamins can be formulated for dermal absorbance retinol, tocopheryl acetate for instance, but you do not mention which.

proteins are as an even broader class than vitamins and sure some proteins may absorb, but that is highly dependent on the structural features of the given protein.

[Sibech]

@ngarayeva001 It (Germall Powder) is banned in products for children under 3 y.o. (except shower gel and shampoo-type rinse-off products), lip/oral products and leave-on products used on a large part of the body (eg body lotion). The limitation is because of iodoproponyl butylcarbamate and not Diazolinidyl Urea.

@Perry You’d think they at least performed a preservation challenge test and should have realised earlier in a scale-up or similar.

[Sibech]

@MaisR Contact givaudan to hear who your local distributor is for their Active Beauty portfolio.

I don’t know if it is available from resellers/repackages for hobby use.

[Sibech]

@smok

Different Chemists uses math to different degrees. If you were to find a physical chemist, a quantum chemist, an analytical chemist or computational chemist, you would find some chemists who know a great deal of math.

And while these subjects focus on the mathematics behind chemistry, all chemists need to know some level of these subjects.

Basically, calling chemists bad at math is wrong and overgeneralizing.

Granted most synthesis chemists use less specific math on an everyday basis, but they need to have a grasp of the underlying math in order to do their job properly.

Formulating chemists have to use even less math, but need a better grasp on the interaction of various ingredients innately - every subject requires different levels. And if you dig deeper into cosmetic chemistry than most cosmetic chemists need to, there is actual math to find as the systems are thermodynamic by nature. Stokes Equation, Derjjaguin-Landau-Verwey-Overbeek theory, The Hagen-Poiseulle equation. These and many more are used by cosmetic chemists on a practical and empirical level.

[Sibech]

Givaudan has a Cosmos/Ecocert certified polymer blend called Easyliance 2.0 which also provides the same effect.

[Sibech]

@Jake99 No Chemically clindamycin is not likely to react with hydroquinone as is.

[Sibech]

@Jake99 Definitely start with a regular lotion as @ngarayeva001 suggested.

You are missing an emulsifier to keep the water and petrolatum together. As you are starting out as a newbie try something along the lines of simple formulas from lotioncrafter.com or makingcosmetics.com

You should also be aware for the future that Clindamycin is not a cosmetic ingredient. It is a drug (antibiotic) which could lead to the development of MRSA strains if misused.

Tretinoin is likewise a drug compound, OTC in the US. The compound is prone to oxidation and requires a decent amount of experience to formulate a stable and safe product.

You can read a lot on hydroquinone on the forum, but I would suggest steering clear of it altogether.

[Sibech]

I think I should elaborate; there are several types of glass pipettes some are reusable, others not so much (the glass Pasteur pipette’s I’ve worked with were not suitable for reuse).

I would still advice against a reusable one, but if you insist on reusing it, then look for something along the lines of a graduated pipette. Just remember that they are a bit more of a hassle to clean and never to get anything into the suction bulb except air.

[Sibech]

It is a distinct pattern. When cosmetics are used for prolonged periods with hydroquinone (or, as she has dark skin, even resorcinol) ochronosis may occur.

Admittedly the pattern makes me doubt if this is ochronosis, it could be an extreme case of melanosis which may, in turn, become melanomas… I wonder what cream she used.

[Sibech]

Pipettes are quick and easy, pipettes are made as consumables, both plastic and glass pipettes and should be tossed after use. Pipettes are quite cheap, find some boxes of 500, it is much cheaper than buying 1-100 pipettes at a time.

You should always measure in weight/weight %, never volume so what method of transfer you prefer is completely up to you. With that said, you should not pour into another container and back into the bulk container, as this increases the risk of contamination and is poor practice in any lab (even a home one).

[Sibech]

@Gunther If they won’t give you a specific compositional breakdown, they might be willing to give you a range, from which you can reasonably estimate proper labeling.

If even that is a problem, I would find another supplier, because they should be an assistance, not a hindrance to proper regulatory compliance.

[Sibech]

You cannot provide “A wonderful” scent to a product without adding fragrances in some form.

While you can technically add some essential oils and not write “Fragrance” on the ingredients list (Instead, you would be adding each essential oil as an ingredient), it would be somewhat deceptive and calling it “Fragrance-free” would be an outright lie.

Remember essential oils contains a buck-ton of allergens, and depending on the geographical location you may be required to disclose some of them if they are in sufficient amounts.

A perfume house would do a much better job, if you want a scent, just write fragrance and be done with it. But considering the holidays, here is an example for one combination I quite like.

40% Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Orange) Peel Oil

20% Pinus Sylvestris (Scotch Pine) Leaf Oil

20% Citrus Paradisi (Grapefruit) Peel Oil

5% Myristica Fragrans (Nutmeg) Fruit Oil

2.5% Cinnamomum Cassia (Cinnamon) Leaf Oil
2.5% Syzygium aromaticum (Clove) Fruit Oil

10% Vanillin

Use the combination as fragrancing raw-material, NOT on its own - and there are allergens to disclose.

As for stability over time, it won’t hold up (Vanillin is a cruel mistress). It will also discolour your product when added.

Happy holidays.

[Sibech]

@chemicalmatt you are probably correct on the formula being more of a suspension (I was a bit too quick and read w/o emulsification and missed that dowsil was written to thicken w/o emulsions). Could you elaborate on how the aluminium and salts thereof would aid in the suspension?

I am more qurious why it’s there as the alumina salts have a low solubility… processing purposes and reduce water draw from skin due to glycerin?

[Sibech]

@mayachem The Dimethicone crosspolymer + Dimethicone is probably Dowsil 9041, which provides (some of) the thickening effect.

I am uncertain what you mean by improves the thickness (Reduces/increases) but Hydrogenated Polyisobutene is pretty much sold as a D5 substitute and wouldn’t provide much thickening, it would, however, increase the volatility of the product and assist to the dry-powder feeling.

As for the original question; Yes it may be correct, the Dowsil functions as a W/O emulsifier.

Edit: @Doreen beat me to it…

[Sibech]

@Doreen at 25 degrees C It is probably the same as the solubility is about 0.6% in water.

[Sibech]

The hair cycle growth is so complicated that you cannot reasonably expect hair to grow based on a single molecule. Some of the hormones/signalling molecules are important for growth but just as important for halting the same growth, depending on the phase of the hair cycle.

The actual mechanism of action for Minoxidil is still to be properly elucidated. Current knowledge indicates an increase in cellular calcium influx and vasodilation as the major causes of effectiveness. Of course, I cannot exclude other mechanisms of action to be, at least partly, responsible for the effect. However stipulating on these effects being of importance, I would expect to see the same effect from the high-concentration essential oils as they would probably cause local irritation which can induce the same two responses.

DHT is one of the key factors in androgen alopecia (male pattern baldness). The active of Propecia compound Finasteride is a 5alpha-reductase II and III inhibitor, meaning that it stops the enzyme responsible for the production of DHT from testosterone. However, it is worth noting that Finasteride needs to be taken orally, not topically to actually function and it has a 3 month period of use before any results are expected to be observed.

Now, it is conceivably plausible to inhibit 5alpha-reductase using phytochemicals and a myriad of articles citing phytochemicals as hair growth promoters would suggest the same. Usually, the studies are performed on rats or in vitro and commonly the studies report polyphenols (chalcones and flavones usually) as the active principle. However, most of the extracts/phytochemicals have about 1-2 studies supporting the notion in rats or in vitro. Few if any, of these studies, have been repeated in human models and as many have commented, rats are not humans.

Entertaining the notion that polyphenols should reliably reduce DHT production and halt hair loss, you might wonder why healthy men eating plenty of fruit and drinking green tea daily, might still lose their hair?

Granted, there are raw materials on the market touting effect here, but clinical significance in vivo/in vitro does not necessarily mean any noticeable effect.

[Sibech]

@Perry I don’t think it was a mistake, just Google L’oreal Ingredients and take a look at the images. The numbers are consistently present (albeit usually prepending Ingredients: )

[Sibech]

@EVchem Well, looking at their other products it is still an anomaly. the 20R307 is more likely the batch number.

It would be nice to know what each number represents, anyone here from L’Oreal

[Sibech]

@EVchem Based on the location and the hard print into the label (found it on the packaging with a google search) I find it unlikely to be a batch number, there are actual numbers printed on top of the label for that.

I think it is an internal number for L’oreal, There are 2 numbers, the F.I.L # and the initial number. Speculation here, but So the first number could be a lot number for the label as @Perry suggests or a formulation versioning number.

BTW, The actual packaging has the number prepending the Ingredients: so it’s not actually written as part of the Ingredients, but the website got it down wrongly.

[Sibech]

@Microformulation How much titanium dioxide do you think it takes to cover up that colour? and why 2 AM - did the lunar phases also change the requirements?

[Sibech]

@em88 That obviously doesn’t work, you would completely randomize the previous aligned water molecues… geez can’t you do any logical thinking and REAL science! (For people who does not deal in irony, this was a joke).

@ngarayeva001 I can say nothing but… sigh….