pma
Forum Replies Created
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In my country a good formulator usually charges about USD3000 for just one product (of course it doesn’t include tests like SPF). It doesn’t seem too much for only one product, but a basic facial skincare line usually contains at least 10 products, so you have to pay about USD30000 just for the development of some products…
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Although it wasn’t your question, phenoxyethanol usually is enough for W/Si emulsions - if the the water content is really low of course.
Most W/Si emulsion in the market are preserved with (and only) phenoxyethanol. -
Maybe you want to do a mask with natto…
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Mikebavington: I totally agree with you. Also, the FDA’s definition for cosmetics is somewhat weird!
“In short, one may say that a cosmetic is a product intended to exert a physical, and not a physiological, effect on the human body.”So, if you want to fellow the FDA’s definition strictly, you shouldn’t use even water in your cosmetic. Since even pure water can alter skin’s physiology.IMO - if you can show good scientific evidences that your claim is true and your cosmetic is safe - you should be allowed to make the claim you want to. -
The irritancy will depend more than pH than the concentration of vitamin C.
A solution with 20% of vitamin C at pH 5.5 may be less irritant than a solution with 10% of vitamin C at a pH 2.5 for instance.Anyway, it’s believed is necessary a pH below 4 to achieve a optimum penetration of vitamin C.SkinCeuticals (L’oréal) for instance offers a solution with 15% of vitamin C in a pH about 3.5. -
A bit of topic, but my favorite occlusive ingredient is lanolin. I know some studies show petrolatum prevents TEWL even better than lanolin, but according to my personal experience lanolin is much better than petrolatum.
It’s sad and unfair this ingredient (lanolin) has a bad reputation - even Kligman said it’s a “false allergenic”. But even formulators are afraid of lanolin. -
I know in Japan many shampoos have alcohol as the second ingredient because consumers there like shampoos with a very low viscosity while they must to foam up a lot! Alcohol is the best way to low the viscosity of a shampoo without diminish the amount of surfactants.
But in a conditioner I really don’t see any logical reason. -
A hair stylizer?
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I think this sunscreen is similar to what you want to:
Maybe you can use this formula as an initial “model”, although seems a bit complicated formula. -
I think basic toxicology concepts are important as well. People must know that even water can be toxic or safe depending of the amount you take.
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Bobzchemist: in Japan, if a product has any whitening ingredient approved by the Japanese government it’s called a quasi-drug, not a cosmetic. And if the sunscreen is a quasi-drug (bacause contains the whitening quasi-drug), you must show in the ingredients list if the inorganic actives are micronized, regular or both.
Japanese regulations for cosmetics are very different from the rest of the world… -
Milliachemist: yes!
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Totally possible! Specially if the product isn’t for the US market. I’m seeing even SPF 130 sunscreens. But you’ll need high performance filters, like Tinosorb M and S, Uvinul A Plus, Uvinul T 150 etc. Basf sells a lot wonderful UV filters. A W/Si emulsion also boosts the SPF a lot!
With 8% of TiO2, 7% of OMC, 2% TNSB-M, 3% of TNSB-S and 2% of Uvinul-A Plus in a W/Si emulsion you will achieve something near SPF 100. Less (maybe 60) if your emulsion is a traditional O/W emulsion.Too much filters? I don’t think so. 22%, 8% being inorganic… In the US many sunscreens have much more UV filters and offer low SPF’s, since there are just a few (and not so good) filters approved there…Anyway, your formula will be very expensive! -
L’oréal and Fujifilm, some of the best cosmetic companies of the world, sell a lot of sunscreens with AVO + TiO2 (coated). So I guess that’s ok.
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Here are two products that are triple emulsions to avoid vitamin C degradation:
Aqua/Water/Eau, Glycerin, Cyclopentasiloxane, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Propylene Glycol, Nylon 12, Sodium Hydroxide, Citric Acid, PEG/PPG 18/18 Dimethicone, Disodium EDTA, Acrylates Crosspolymer, Isobutane, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Parfum/FragranceWater, Dimethicone, Iscocetyl Sterate, Glycerin, Mannose, Ascorbic Acid, Caprylic/Capric/Lauric TriglycerideButylene Glycol, Sucrose Tristearate, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Styrene/Ma Copolymer, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Steareth-10, Madecassoside, Sodium Stearoyl Glutamate, Hydrogenated Lecithin, Hydrolyzed Hyaluronic Acid, Caprylyl Glycol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Acetyl Dipeptide 1 Cetyl Ester, Xanthan Gum, Acrylates Copolymer, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Phenoxyethanol, FragranceWell, I suppose they are triple emulsions because they are from L’oréal and this company patented triple emulsions formulas for vitamin C. -
Another form for vitamin C stabilization (in part of course) is doing a triple emulsion: W (with ascorbic acid)/Si/W.
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I agree with Perry, but the the combination of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) + ferulic acid + tocopherol in the right pH can help protect your skin from the sun:
Vitamin C also has an anti-melanogenic effect, so can help to diminish spots… -
L’oréal (Skinceuticals) stabilizes vitamin C with ferulic acid and vitamin E. But theirs serums still oxidize easily. You buy them with a champagne color and after some days they are brownish.
What about using vitamin C derivatives, like magnesium ascorbyl phosphate? -
TKS alot Alchemist! Anyway the last study says: “The infrequency of reports of ethanol sensitivity suggests suggests that it’s a weak sensitizer. The cases of positive skin reactivity generally have been associated with occupational contact, skin disinfection, or ingestion. Certainly human skin is frequently exposed to ethanol from a variety of cosmetic and household products, and yet there is little or no risk of developing an allergic reaction. The exaggerated conditions under which reactivity was induced in our subjects exceeds normal exposure”.
VERY different from what she says… -
Anyway, I’m not a big of MIT. Studies show it causes much more allergic reactions than parabens.
IMO the best preservatives still are parabens (generalizing). I love parabens: very low level of skin irritations and allergies, inexpensive, safe, effective etc. -
“(…) when the liquid foundation mixes with the oils in your skin it will further develop/extend the color and make your foundation look darker (…)”
The darkened of the skin’s oil is interesting. In Asia, where darkening is a big no-no for consumers and consumers notice even the slightest color change of the skin, the cleansers usually remove a lot of oil - to give an instantly “whitening effect”. This guy showed how a basic soap can instantly offer a “whitening” effect - probably the most desired cosmetic effect in many Asian countries: -
TKS Perry, but I meant the pigments on the skin, not the skin per se…
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“Guys, when we talk about photo-stabilization, does it mean discoloration due to light or temp?”.
No. Actually, the “performance” of the sunscreen on your skin after a period under the sun… A good article about this:I strongly recommend you don’t use OMC with AVO even with OCT. Another article explaining why:How does Octinoxate Degrade Avobenzone? http://thetriplehelixian.com/2012/10/13/how-does-octinoxate-degrade-avobenzone/You can use OCM with ZnO (ZnO is a wonderful sunscreen active in my personal opinion). Or if you want to use AVO you can use OCT and other filters instead of OCM, like Ensulizole, Octisalate etc. -
As Duncan said, they are just ‘skincare products with “Added UV protection”‘, not sunscreens. So they aren’t too concerned about UV-A protection, photostability etc. Some companies are more carefully with UV-A protection than others… You won’t find this combination in L’oréal products for instance (even skincare ones).
To test the photostability of the products you will need to order specific tests. Anyway, any product for UV protection is 100% photostable, some are more or less than others.