[Pharma]

A 3:1 ratio of Tween 20 to oils is limit, might work for some but won’t for others. The two lower ratios are +/- bound to fail, you could probably make emulsions/creams but not the desired micellar solutions with them.

[Pharma]

Thanks, might be worth registering for our pharmacy then .

Do you also sell products of guaranteed identity or could provide FT-IR spectra for Opus by Bruker? Swiss regulations get harder and harder…

[Pharma]

For me, that MOQ is huge 😮 ! But thanks anyway (who knows when/if that might come in handy)!

[Pharma]

Poshkay said:

…If 2% citric acid can give me a pH 5.5, what corresponding amount of sodium citrate should I put in the formulation to create a buffer effect.
…

Add as much trisodium citrate as you need to obtain a pH of 5.5 to your 2% citric acid solution . Or do you mean a total of 2% citric acid plus citrate and you want to know the ratio of citric acid to trisodium citrate? Buffer tables will help you with that: CLICK ME. Attention, these are often in molar and not grams!

[Pharma]

@MarkBroussard Thanks for the complement. So phytic acid really is available. Never seen it being sold.

[Pharma]

Not sure if I do understand what you mean… Maybe: Saponification value (for NaOH) / (3 * molecular weight NaOH) * molecular weight glycerol = mg glycerin per gram oil.

[Pharma]

It grows on a petri dish so it was very much alive! Dead bacteria don’t show up on petri dishes.

[Pharma]

From what I understand, these ingredients will feel and look great but they won’t penetrate hair but stick to the outer surface.

For example MCT, ester oils, and small molecule humectants will really penetrate. Do these make your hair look less dry or healthier: Probably yes. Does it get easier to comb: Probably no. You would have to try things out to see what you and your hair really need. You could put your hair under a microscope to determine diameter before and after some time of treatment with product X to see if it’s swelling. Swelling can be an indicator for penetration/accumulation in inner layers but it seems (I don’t really understand that part, it’s just re-chewing what I’ve read) that swelling can also be an indicator for products which weaken your hair similar to veggies “bloating” when fed too much water and fertilisers.

[Pharma]

12 is absolutely okay for an o/w emulsion. Calculating may predict how chances are that the emulsion will be stable over time.

As @LincsChemist said: Switching out some wax with fatty alcohols will not only result in a nicer feel but also broadens HLB requirement or in other words increases the tolerance to not so perfect HLB matching.

[Pharma]

 @ngarayeva001 Gluconolactone is slow release gluconic acid (not so slow in alkaline and very acidic solution). It also helps preventing a formula becoming too alkaline (something that’s obviously not going to happen in above serum) similar to triethyl citrate but pH and not microbial metabolism driven. Since it doesn’t change pH, you can add it to a cream at for example pH 6 and the cream will still be pH 6. Should pH rise (bacterial growth or the like) makes it degrade turning into gluconic acid and thereby lowering pH back to 6 (that’s at least the theory). Directly adding gluconic acid turns the cream to probably pH 5 and you have to add a base = more work.

@skininthegame 0.5% caprylyl glycol sounds reasonable = manufacturers recommendation.

Yup, sodium phytate is what’s commonly sold as “phytic acid”.

[Pharma]

I did work for small joint projects with cosmetics industries during my post-doc. We tested plant extracts in in vitro assays such as cancer cell lines and enzymatic arrays. Stupid thing was, and that was “openly” (in-house) communicated, that they were looking for good in vitro data supporting claims such as antioxidant, cancer prevention, inhibition of enzyme X and Y but in a second step had to show that the active constituents of said extracts neither did penetrate skin nor show any in vivo effects. Doing research with cosmetics, as good and unbiased as it may be, using “pixie dust” as such claim ingredients were called, is utter nonsense. I quit university research because it’s as money driven as everything else on this planet. Publish or perish; if you want funding, publish where you can get attention and where $$$ are. To do so, simply run an additional half-hearted test showing cancer related effects and end your conclusion section with a statement “Promising compound X is possibly active against cancer cells but this requires further research”. F*** that! I already did 50% of my PhD for free because they stopped funds due to my findings being not according to plan (the name of the inhibited enzyme is unpronounceable and the effect competed against their own already marketed product -> an advertisement nightmare = project is dead).

In cosmetics, since it is not about scientific effects but about hopes and dreams, it’s even worse! For most applications, there is no point in doing proper research, let alone good one. Make a product, run a comparison in-house against whatever you desire, sell it and if consumers love it (consumer acceptance is very often highly correlated to publicity) then you sell more, else push out a “new and better” formula and switch out the marketing team.

If you want a real effect, get a prescription and throw in some pills and if you want eternal youth, register at cryonics.

[Pharma]

“Probiotic” is an arbitrary definition. A living microbe or active spore is pro-bios = for life, no matter whether it’s “healthy” (again, not a clearly term) or pathogenic. Usually, probiotics are either part of commensal/symbiotic microbes or transient guests in/on our body which allegedly have “beneficial” effects. Also, a probiotic product should deliver living microbes to its target (skin, guts etc.). Since E. coli is usually a commensal/symbiotic intestinal bacterium, it may be considered “probiotic” depending on the intended use (i.e. against diarrhoea), a pathogen if it’s one of certain potentially harmful strains, or a contaminant in products used for other purposes (e.g. cosmetics, eye-drops, intimal care…).

[Pharma]

At very low pH, EDTA and gluconate won’t perform well (if at all). Phytic acid on the other hand still works at such a pH.

Probably up caprylyl glycol or are you using a blend such as Lexgard HPO? That cocktail and the very low pH should work very well.

AL & GA: Effective for what?

No, you don’t REALLY need tocopherol, any lipohilic antioxidant will do :blush: .

Azeloyl diglycinate: I was all ahhh and ohhh when I stumbled upon that ingredient. Further reading turned it into a pfff and meh. Sure, use it and let us know what you think about it! Would be nice knowing.

[Pharma]

Ask the lab. The used culture medium determines which germs can or can’t grow. There are media which are selective for bacteria or for fungi and such which allow growth of both.

From afar, these dishes look like colonised by bacteria rather than yeast but again, the lab technician who actually holds these plates (held them under a microscope) should be able to tell your more.

Edit: upss, just figured out that I can get a close-up. Well, could be either of both, bacteria or yeast… (not helpful, I know)

[Pharma]

Just in case you have something in mind like pressed soapnut cake to be used as soap bar: Such products, since they contain 100% (organic or not) natural and only mechanically processed material, are not patentable. There needs to be something new about the product like new ingredient (= new plant = GMO = zero chance in your case unless it’s a plant indigenous to your country but then it’s going to cost you a fortune to get all the tox-data etc. for new chemical entities done), new process (= aliens from area 51 using hypersoap-beams on potatoes to turn them into soap bars = zero chance in your case since you’re claiming “organic”), new application (= existing natural and organic car polish now used for hand soap = your most likely chance for a patent). Being the first all natural and organic soap is not a patent claim since you’re not the first with such a product. Besides, neither “all natural” nor “organic” are patentable attributes (they’re rather arbitrary definitions).

Again, ask a patent layer what he thinks about it or just file for patent and wait and sell until someone sues you for patent infringement.

[Pharma]

Ah, okay.

Forgot to mention: If you added a pinch of Epsom salt, your formula would be the perfect nutrient broth for microbial growth. Mixing water, bentonite/clay, and fluid lecithin is a preservation nightmare even without addition of native oils/butters and the extra magnesium and sulphur from Epsom salt! These two elements will likely become limiting factors, but only once your product looks like a months old pizza slice you forgot under your sofa :smiley: . Naticide would have to be added at probably something like 30-50% to do anything!

[Pharma]

I don’t agree with @ngarayeva001 but it’s often one of the easier ways to learn things.

[Pharma]

Octyldodecanol is a Guerbet alcohol and the product of a harsher chemical reaction using a less “eco-friendly” catalyst and commonly also requires solvent extractions whereas the synthetic route for coco caprylate is a tick shorter and involves “greener” reaction steps (though often also a not so “eco-friendly” catalyst) and can be done without solvents. For both, the raw materials grow on trees (or on grainfields) . BTW, in both cases, the used catalysts are added in small amounts and recycled .

[Pharma]

Personally, I like glucoside based shampoos and my hair loves them! My hair (the part that’s still on my scalp LoL) gets greasy super fast and I have to wash it now daily (sucks). It’s getting all hay and frizz with harsh/good shampoo but does really fine with less performing mild glucosides.

Why not try just the surfactant base and then add one ingredient after the other, bit by bit?

Not sure, but aren’t zinc salts regulated? At such high levels, it still might be okay in a rinse-off product but the cost of 10% alone… uff… On the other hand, PCA is great, I like that stuff too! Why not apply PCA and/or its salts afterwards as a leave-in moisturiser? Zinc is mostly used for dandruff and several skin conditions but won’t do much on a healthy scalp.

[Pharma]

Lecithin as sole emulsifier will be very tricky to get it to work. Your formula looks like an oil in water emulsion which can work with lecithin (e.g. mayonnaise) but requires high amounts, further additives, and a special mixing sequence.

PEG-40 is not an emulsifier but a very low viscosity water soluble PEG. You probably forgot half of the name.

I suppose that your formula feels weird because of the high amount of waxes. Probably replace some with hydrogenated oils or fatty alcohols?

Personally, I don’t trust naticide because the INCI is perfume. Nobody knows what’s really in there and IMHO that’s really scary!

[Pharma]

1. I’m buying chemicals from chemical manufacturers directly. One of the many advantages when working in a pharmacy :smiley: . Cosmetic ingredients for private use, I’ll get the required small quantities from DIY vendors.

2. What are your MOQs?

[Pharma]

Just a side note: You mean hydroTropes, not hydrotopes. A hydrotope is a landscaping expression for water containing habitats such as ponds and fountains .

[Pharma]

Get a patent layer .

I’m honestly very sceptical that your idea is i) patentable, ii) new, iii) not already covered by an existing patent, and iv) compliant with common “organic” labels.

A soap by definition is hydrolysed oil/fat (i.e. triglycerides): The triglycerides used are usually natural and often “organic” whilst the base used for hydrolysis & fatty acid neutralisation may be a natural mineral which, depending on the labelling organism, may be considered “organic”. There aren’t too many organic (in a chemical sense) bases and these aren’t “organic” (in a labelling sense) since they require several isolation and purification steps. An example is arginine base and this one has already been patented (if I’m not mistaken by Ajinomoto). Many thousands of years ago, soap was made by mixing/cooking water, ash (from organic or wild harvested wood), and oil/fat (from organically farmed or wild plants/animals). The resulting soap is 100% natural and “organic” (again, not all organic labels will consider such a soap organic).

[Pharma]

Based on composition, there is no limit (neither an upper nor a lower) and you are free to use as much as you’d like to get the sensory profile you aim for. But that’s just an educated guess, not personal experience or anything like that.

[Pharma]

I might go with gluconolactone (“slow release”) and citric acid (immediate effect) but then again, wait what those with more practical experience have to say. For personal use where a slight increase in cost and labour doesn’t matter, it’s not a bad thing to go a bit overboard. Better save than sorry, right?

Head space is the air in the container/tube/bottle. That’s where mould starts first (-> fruit jam).

Benzoate and ascorbic acid combination is in fact something which is disadvised because of the possible degradation. Although, it seems to be done frequently… if it poses a real life problem, I do not know, can’t remember the article I read about a while back.