[Pharma]

Glycol distearate is not an emulsifier but a pearlising agent.

[Pharma]

QSAR is as suitable for calculating/estimating cosmetic formulations as quantum mechanics is for making vanilla ice cream.

If you want to spend money in software which might help consider getting familiar with the HLD principle and then, if you’re filthy rich, get a COSMO-RS software. It’s still not very helpful but certainly better suited than QSAR.

Else, properly design your experiments to speed up development time. Cosmetic ‘science’ is still an experimental science with a lot of hands on work required because there simply is no suitable program. If you do basic research on a simple system or a new ingredient, sure programs help (but not QSAR which is used in development of new active pharmaceutical entities) but no program can predict the fine differences needed in a, say, 20-30 compounds long LOI to meet customer expectations.

[Pharma]

Nope, not recommending heating because heat soluble stuff will fall out once cooled. Same with pressure but more difficult and dangerous to do.

I’m just saying that there is a chance that if one solvent fails, another might work but you’re not going to know which one until you tried or got tired of trying.

[Pharma]

Ionic liquids much like the related deep eutectic solvents are fairly different one from the other, likely more so than standard solvents. When it comes to solubilising things like cellulose (deep eutectic solvents are piss poor in this regard but outstanding regarding lignin, the other main ‘insoluble’ in plant matter), there are tremendous differences between the different types of those ‘alternative’ solvents even if just one of the two partners is different.

If you read through scientific literature, you’ll probably find many recent papers but mind, most use heat (maybe 50 to over 150°C) and/or pressure (sometimes several bar) for dissolution. Meaning, if you find a promising candidate it may still fail at ambient temperature or require a 10 to 100 times excess solvent and may still be labelled ‘efficient’ solvent for X or Y.

[Pharma]

filiz said:

sorry @pharma  For example, when I examine the aquaxyl reaction, what can I infer about moisture?

Which reaction? Are you referring to its synthesis? That has nothing to do with any final effect, it’s just a fun fact .

[Pharma]

jemolian said:

…Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media…or Adipose Derived Adult Stem Cell Conditioned Media…

That’s actually just the media used to cultivate those cells in, they don’t actually contain any cells . DMEM and the like are frequently found in cosmetics. In my honest opinion as someone who actually worked with human cell lines in such media (but not for cosmetics or at least not to make cosmetics from them -> see end of post), it’s a quite ridiculous idea to use culture media for topical applications. Hopefully, they don’t add fetal calf serum to it as we did.

Can’t remember which brand it was but I once saw placenta extract on a product an INCI also lists hydrolysed placenta proteins (derived from animals not humans, I suppose else I’d have to buy that vampire spray LoL).

And again, another PLUS for gem stones because they the non-toxic ones aren’t soluble and hence can not be extracted by common means.

Depending on your believes, homoeopathy uses weird stuff too and is in turn added to different cosmetics.

Reminds me of which: I once worked a bit with Toxinomics Foundation and Atheris who do research on animal toxins from poisonous snakes, spiders, cone snails, and the like to be used in cosmeceuticals for example as ‘topical botox’. Their ‘actives’ may not be regarded as pixie dust but it’s still weird if you think about putting paralysing toxins on your skin.

[Pharma]

Well, you’ll find more or less EVERY type in pharmacies, in some countries even moonshine and the like . We sell pure ethanol for drinking purposes and for pharmaceutical preparations, with camphor, with ketones, ARO, ‘methylated spirit’, and
many different elixirs, essences, and tinctures which may be considered
alcohol. During the first pandemic wave, schnapps-like ethanol qualities were also on the menu.

Another definition of pharmaceutical ethanol is ethanol as described in pharmacopoeias but again, huge differences between countries. If I’m not mistaken, the European Pharmacopoeia lists 0.1% camphor which is utterly useless for perfumes and pure ethanol which can not be sold, both as 70% and 96% and the latter as anhydrous too. Pharma quality does not necessarily relate to denaturation and I (but not you) could buy said ethanols with a broad set of other denaturants from the Swiss alcohol producer .

[Pharma]

Magnesium stearate: Because that’s needed to make the pills I’m going to need should I ever get into a position where I really have to choose just one emulsifier for all my creations. :smiley:

[Pharma]

filiz said:

hi @Pharma
How can I make inferences that it will not provide effective moisture when I examine its reactions? 

Sorry, neither do I understand what you mean nor what you’re referring to.

[Pharma]

I don’t get the pun with ‘fruitful’, my brain is like a dried prune after today… but maybe DMEA malate would work given that malic acid a fruit acid :smiley: .

[Pharma]

If you want to use it as sole emulsifier, then you have to go with lecithin.

On the other hand, lysolecithin penetrates better but there you should use it as co-emulsifier…

From what I hear, pure lecithin emulsions don’t feel that great and I believe that to be the case too though I never used it solo. In my limited experience and based on hearsay, it works especially nice as co-emulsifier for lamellar network formulations.

The matt finish calls either for hydrogenated lecithin or use lecithin alongside a matt finishing primary emulsifier. The liquid versions contains about 50% oil and that may feel greasy or be shiny. It is likely either residual oil (soy or sunflower) or added safflower oil. On the other hand, non-hydrogenated will penetrate better but leaves less residue though lecithin in general is not a fast penetrating compound. Well, on my skin it still vanishes better than petroleum jelly and my skin has more issues with liquid versions than dry ones.

[Pharma]

@chemicalmatt Aren’t you confusing one with the other?

Lecithin is for liposomes but may also be used for either o/w, w/o, lamellar, or mixed type emulsions. Depending on origin and quality, residual oil (liquid lecithins) and/or phosphatidylcholine are its main constituent but PE may be present in nearly equal amounts. ‘Dry’ or granulated lecithin does not contain considerable amounts of oil.

Lysolecithin is produced by ‘digesting’ lecithin with phospholipase A and is a pure o/w emulsifier. These are available with or without oil and/or free fatty acids though the unrefined version is more common.

[Pharma]

Define ‘pharmaceutical alcohol’.

Common alcohol used in perfumes aka ARO alcohol is cheap and odourless = denaturated with non-volatile compound such as bitter tasting rosemary extract. Other denaturanting agents such as camphor (commonly used to denaturate pharmaceutical ethanol), isopropanol or ketones may affect flavour profile or destroy fabrics whilst denatonium benzoate is too bitter to be used in cosmetics.

The ‘perfect’ ethanol would be pure ethanol which you can not buy in pharmaceutical quality (it has no alcohol tax on it and therefore can only be used for pharmaceutical products) unless it’s sold as drinking alcohol. Here in Switzerland, the two versions used/sold in pharmacies are actually the same, just taxing and hence pricing are very different. Therefore, ARO ethanol is used for cosmetic products and perfumes.

[Pharma]

Natacide is natamycin, an antifungal antibiotic used for example on cheese.

Naticide is a mystery blend by Sinerga with a basically empty SDS and where only the stuff not present in it is publicly available. I don’t trust such things…

[Pharma]

Aquaxyl is a joke if you want the opinion of a chemist. It’s just mixing and heating glucose with xylite to get a poorly reacted mixture with a lot of side products. It does look like one of the many failed attempts at creating xylite esters/acetals. Welcome to the world of cosmetic chemistry and marketing LoL.

Anyway, Xyliance is, as mentioned above, an emulsifier with slight film-forming properties. I perceive it as rather dry in touch with zero moisturising effect. Maybe that film keeps moisture locked in the skin? Don’t have that experience to confirm or deny it properly but marketing implies it does play that trick…

[Pharma]

Well known ‘hydrotropes’ (a really silly term of undefined meaning or rather everyone thinks of it differently) which are more on the natural side and don’t give the same impression of household cleaning products as sodium xylene and cumene sulfonates include urea, niacinamide, sodium benzoate and sodium salicylate.

However, I don’t know why a ‘hydrotrope’ is recommended… if it’s only for increased transparency of the product, you may as well just go with a turbid conditioner or try some workarounds like perlising or colouring agents to mask the ‘defect’.

Propylene glycol is not a ‘hydrotrope’ in the same sense as sodium xylene sulfonate is and should better be described as solubiliser or solvent. However, adding sufficient amounts may turn your product gooey or even liquid. By ‘proper’ definition, hydrotropes are commonly added in excess of the sparingly soluble compound to be dissolved in the corresponding liquid. Given that you don’t have a liquid but a solid and 30-40% ‘insolute’… ???

[Pharma]

Depends on the quality you’re using. Non-deoiled non-hydrogenated will tend to be more shiny.

The two have their benefits as much as any other emulsifier, it all boils down to your expectations and the type of formulation you’re using.

[Pharma]

@Leo I haven’t used DMEA lactate .

I’d simply prefer lactate over formate or acetate (more pros and less cons).

[Pharma]

Dermal reaction to certain cereals is more likely a common allergy rather than coeliac disease although the latter may be so severe and persisting for so long (because of non-cereal-abstinent nutrition) that antibodies are built against cereal proteins. Though this scenario is hypothetical, involves to a lot of bad luck, and likely requires some type of skin issue as well.

Or it’s an imaginary reaction or, especially in kids, a pseudo-allergy.

[Pharma]

The problem arises as soon as you dump your IL/fruit pulp stock solution into your final product… make sure you use enough speed to disperse it good enough or stuff might cause nasty precipitates.

BTW I’m not sure if any ILs are approved for cosmetics. Personally, I’d go with DMEA lactate but you’d have to try yourself what works best for your fruit powder. Not all ILs are the same when it comes to dissolving different stuff.

[Pharma]

@Leo Enough chitosan to do whatever you want it to do but not enough to give a too hard gel. The amount of acid depends on the degree of deacetylation (which you may not know) of chitosan and has to exceed 50% of the free amino moieties in order to bring chitosan into solution. Conditions: Well, get the pH below 6 and keep it below 6 and it works like a charm in cold or hot water and just takes a few minutes depending on the quality of chitosan you use.

[Pharma]

I use chitosan as gelling agent too .

[Pharma]

Conditions: <pH6, whichever acid doesn’t really matter. Maybe don’t go with citric acid as first choice and phytic acid is somewhat incompatible with chitosan. Stay clear of anionic emulsifiers if possible.

[Pharma]

Depends.

You’re not very precise. Plant powder like simply powdered plant or a dried extract? What plant, which part of the plant? How comes that the whole powder dissolves? Cellulose usually doesn’t dissolve in DMSO….

[Pharma]

Yes.