[Pete]

Have you considered enzymatic hydrolysis (saponification) instead of KOH then? This is certainly a natural process.

[Pete]

Hi Janette,

This sounds very interesting. I have sent you a message outside of the forum which hopefully you have received.

[Pete]

Personally, I think it is comforting to know that there are Watchdogs out there looking out for consumer interests. Especially with a carcenogen like 1,4-dioxane.

[Pete]

Haha. Agreed with the first comment #johnb.

I thought it was interestig as I guess the tattoo craze will end in the not too distant future. Not so easy to remove as a beard!

I had a bit more of a read and see that these products might work to some extent if the tattoo has just been done.

From what I can tell, the only serious product is still under development and uses bisphosphonates in liposomes. A nice drug repurposing exercise, but definitely not a cosmetic.

Cheers,

Pete

[Pete]

Thankyou for your input. They sounded a bit unlikely to me.

Cheers,

Pete

[Pete]

So, presumably if they do not state that the creams contain an active ingredient, they are cosmetics because they are only changing the appearance of the skin - even though that entails removal of dyes?

[Pete]

@johnb

Thanks for the clarification. I see now

[Pete]

I understand what you say. What I feel is the best approach (for me) is to look for a business partner. I am sure I could do the stuff involved in the day-to-day running of a business, but to be honest, it doesn’t appeal to me.

I’m much happier coming up with ideas and making them work. I also quite like hunting down their market value, although this part is new to me. Like you say, a feeling ain’t enough.

I think I might ultimately go for an in-between option. A company that provides contract research and synthesis services, but also produces and sells some of its own products. We could then test what is most profitable. I have an ex-colleague  that seems to be thinking along the same lines and is evening willing to commit his own money. I am tempted to hook up with him, but it would need to be a strong business case before commiting any of my own money.

Regarding cosmetics, I have been in touch with DIY-Bio in Barcelona. They are a group of volunteers that are interested in biology and in trying to involve the public (similar to the garage genetic engineering movement in the US). I want to run a project there on making natural cosmetic formulations for fun and perhaps also extracting our own natural products (to give it a more bio angle). I could see this as a win-win-win situation. I learn about formulations, gain new contacts with interest and get a free area to test it out.

Could then consider whether to use this along with ingredients that the bigger companies use that are unavailable to small ones. There should be an anle here but unfortunately the area is so unscientific in terms of efficacy that it is really hard to tell at the moment. Amogst many other oprions, I am currently talking to some contacts in some of the bigger cosmetics ingredients manufacturers to understand their angle - or whether there are opportunities to collaborate directly with them.

I think that if I explore enough angles, opportunities will turn up that can be actioned quickly or kept in reserve until I have more money available. It’s not easy, but I don’t want to work within another large company. Been there already!

Keep in touch with how you progress.

Pete

[Pete]

@Belassi, Didn’t want to scare you (just inform you). Kloe is completely right and I find the people, including in companies and universities very kind and helpfully whichever language you communicate with them in.

Only situation I find difficult (other than my awful accent) can be coffee breaks where people try to talk in a language you all understand, but can’t help but revert back to their native language from time-to time which is understandable.

Regarding, Wales, when I lived in Cardiff there certainly were nighclubs that were Welsh only, and that was in a predominantly English speaking part of the country!

[Pete]

 

The main language in Barcelona is Catalan (between Spanish and French). Everyone can speak Spanish, but it is expected that you attempt to learn some Catalan if you are here for a reasonable length of time (although I should add that I haven’t attempted yet:( ). This is probably fair given that Franco was trying to eliminate it.

I’m not sure if there is a similar expectation in the Basque country. Basque looks much more difficult to learn because it is completely different from Spanish - or any other language in fact.

[Pete]

Hi David,

You would think it would be like sending some mouldy bread!
However, in this day and age I think you are right that it should be sent
correctly.

I will contact an ex-colleague and get some advice, then get back to
you. If it turns out to be expensive I will be happy to pay the postage unless
it turns out to be ridiculously expense -which could be a possibility.

[Pete]

Hi AnnaLavar,

Regarding the 300 dollars, I’m basing this on the Debut Development LLC advert that appeared in another discussion. Essentially, if you don’t want to produce your own cosmetics and would like to get very small batches of a few different products made to test the market, spending hundreds rather than thousands of dollars/Euros sounds far more attractive to me as a starting point.

As with you, I am primarily interested in pharmaceuticals but this is expensive to get into. I am looking as cosmeceuticals as an alternative option; primarily producing ingredients (chemistry using natural enzymes which is where my mains skills lie), but with product formulation as a backup to sell my own products if I can’t sell the ingredients. I could then progress to pharma development later.

I should start a string about alternative ingredients soon as there seems to be a disconnect between large and small company approaches. I am hoping there might be opportunities to market non-commercial ingredients to medium sized companies with aspirations to expand.

However, being a scientist, I like to gather lots of info before diving into anything. Some might see this as too cautious, but for better or worse, it’s how my mind works.

Good luck with any career changes you make too!

[Pete]

Belassi,

Wow, you have done a lot!

Relative to Mexico and Alicante it is fairly expensive, but it depends where you live. However, Barcelona is still seen as quite a cheap place to live.

Since the crisis there are plenty of cheap apartments on the outskirts of the city. Furthermore, most industry is based in Catalonia or in the Basque country, so it probably makes a lot of sense logistically.

I particularly like how Barcelona is pushing to be a tech hub, emulating California. There are a lot of start-ups with many ideas floating around.

The only downside from my point of view is that you have to learn two languages, but I still woundn’t live anywhere else.

[Pete]

Hi Belassi,

I was surprised to see that your book is based in England whereas you live in Mexico. Can’t help but ask if you have lived there for some time in the past because it all sounds pretty realistic to me - especially having lived there most of my life - including Liverpool for a short while.

Regarding Spain, I would highly recomend Barcelona. Highly vibrant with lots of innovative tech companies (Also, maybe I could get some tips from you if you were close by).

[Pete]

Hi David, that would be excellent! I would say a 100mg in total (including some of the microbe and some of the compound). If you send it in the post that will be great. I will make a glycerol stock and store at -70 degC then until I decide what to do with it - although I will consult colleagues that are more expert than me in such matters before doing so.

I will send you a private message with my address in Spain - Hope you are okay to send it here!

[Pete]

Done

[Pete]

Many microorganisms can be trained to accept different carbon sources as food and this is quite a common method of identifying biocatalysts for using industrially. As Perry said, life finds a way.

In fact, yeast, trained to grow on resorcinol have been found to degrade chlororesorcinol to, according to the authors, an “unknown pink intermediate”. However, this study used dilute solutions.

Chloroaromatics are quite difficult to degrade in the environment. Personally I would love to get my hands on the sample to see if the microbe (assuming that’s what it is” has value for bioremediation.

[Pete]

Thanks heraklit and Babzchemist! Very useful

[Pete]

Thanks Johnb. This is just to get an understanding at the moment on what the absolute minimum costs and volumes could be to get some trial products produced without filling my kitchen, should I go down this route.

[Pete]

As this discussion already seems to have been hijacked by emily.flemer and being relatively new to the site, could anyone tell me if Debut Development, LLC are in fact unique in supplying small production runs either in the US or Europe? I would be interested to know of some other companies that offer such a service or if there is an opportunity here.

Happy if someone could answer that for me before getting back to the original discussion around bee cosmetics from Andis.

[Pete]

Hi Donmattus, I haven’t been following this discussion until
just now, but a quick look on the internet mentioned a relatively recent and successful clinical
trial using oral itraconazole (DOI: 10.1007/s40257-015-0133-9) which is used where patients show extensive SD
resistance to topical therapies. Maybe it is mentioned somewhere in your above discussion and I have missed it, but thought it worth adding in case it helps.

[Pete]

Thanks Perry

[Pete]

Apart from testing for stability and viscosity how, if at all, is the stability of the active ingredient tested over the product shelf life (eg, VitC)?

[Pete]

I wish. I believe bee populations in the countryside have declines in most developed countries due to monocultures, pesticides and little space left for wild flowers. However, they appear to be thriving in cities - but I think I would want a tracker on them before eating the honey!

[Pete]

Hi johnb, why do you consider green tea as fairy dust. I thought it contains lots of antioxidants?