OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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If you’re making products in the cosmetic industry, your best bet is to follow the recommendations of the PCPC. This is the group that is responsible for setting the rules that cosmetic companies in the US should follow.
This has some good information in it.
http://eservices.personalcarecouncil.org/science/17ss/presentations/daane.pdf -
Thanks for the update.
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I would think that the different acids have a different level of activity against various organisms. Maybe there is some bacteria that can tolerate sorbic acid but gets wiped out by benzoic acid. Just my guess.
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There isn’t any one-to-one replacement. We used Cocamidopropyl Betaine as a replacement but had to make significant adjustments to rest of the formula.
Incidentally, the best science does not show Cocadmide DEA causes cancer and is safe to use in products at levels as used in cosmetics.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l964yzctytwsro1/cocamiddea-safety.pdf?dl=0 -
Yes, dimethicone copolyol is a good option, although much less conditioning than dimethicone
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While I haven’t made your formula I can make this prediction…if you add alpha lipoic acid you will notice exactly zero difference in performance. That is, if I gave you a sample of the formula with lipoic acid and one without you would not be able to tell a difference. So, do you think it is worth adding?
As far as the overall formula goes, it appears to be a complicated mess to me. But I’m a minimalist formulator. I don’t like to include any ingredient in a formula unless I can demonstrate that it makes a difference.
It seems to me that you are trying to do way too much with this formula. What is the purpose of adding Alpha Lipoic Acid, Resveratrol, CoQ10, Vitamin E, C, A, Gluathoine, and Ferulic Acid? You say “anti-oxidant” but what does that even mean to you? What oxidation are you trying to prevent? How do you know these ingredients prevent it?
My suggestion to you is to step back and work with 1 ingredient that you believe is an antioxidant. Create a formula that optimizes a single antioxidant and gain some experience. This means you’ll have to figure out some way to evaluate whether the antioxidant you’ve added is having any measurable effect or not. So, you’ll need to figure out how to evaluate it.
After you’ve optimized 1 ingredient you can start experimenting with a second ingredient. Then do the whole evaluation process again.
Coming up with a good, functional formula is not as simple as just mixing together every anti-aging ingredient you’ve heard was good for skin. Most of the reports of ingredients being good for skin are under very specific conditions and the effects are not replicated under real use conditions. Almost no research exists evaluating how these ingredients work when used together.
I agree with all the suggestions @Evchem has listed. However, if you just want a serum that has all these ingredients in it and you don’t really care or are interested in whether it really works, the formula you have is probably fine (for personal use) as long as it doesn’t burn or irritate your skin (it might at that low pH).
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Your question is difficult to answer because it is not specific enough.
It is easy enough to add alpha lipoic acid to a formula. It is Very Slightly Soluble (0.24 g/L) in water which means you could put 0.02g in 100g of water and it should go in fine. If you have an emulsion maybe you could put even a bit more.But the real question is, so what? Why are you adding alpha lipoic acid to your skincare formula? What do you want it to do? How will you measure whether it is doing that or not? Also, what else is in this formula?
If you just want to put it in a formula and then note in your advertising or on the bottle that the product contains alpha lipoic acid, then just do what I said above. If you have some specific benefit you are trying to get from it, then the answer may be a bit more complicated.
The same answer holds for sodium stabilized alpha lipoic acid.
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Does it still meet the original specifications on the Certificate of Analysis? If so, then probably yes. If not, then probably no.
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These are the only legal ingredients.
https://www.fda.gov/media/80442/downloadPermitted single active ingredient products:• Benzoyl peroxide in concentrations of 2.5 to 10 percent.• Salicylic acid in concentrations of 0.5 to 2 percent.• Sulfur in concentrations of 3 to 10 percent.Permitted combination active ingredient products.• Resorcinol in 2 percent concentration in combination with sulfur in concentrations of between 3 and 8 percent.• Resorcinol monoacetate in 3 percent concentration in combination with sulfur in concentrations of between 3 and 8 percent. -
We always used deionized water in both the lab and in production.
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Thanks @Fekher!
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See this.
,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":485,"abs_y":591}”>https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/641/laboratory-set-up-equipment-list#latest” bis_size=”{"x"
,"y":22,"w":569,"h":37,"abs_x":424,"abs_y":610}”>https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/641/laboratory-set-up-equipment-list#latest -
Use less color
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It’s much easier to duplicate a formula by first ignoring all the “marketing” ingredients. Those can always be added later after you’ve got something that matches in terms of viscosity, color, and odor. This is a much easier approach than adding 2 dozen ingredients and trying to figure out which ones have the important effects. So, simplify the formula to only…
Water
GlycerinXanthan GumHelianthus Annuus Seed Oil (Sunflower)Isopropyl PalmitateGlyceryl Stearate SECetyl AlcoholStearic AcidButyrospermum Parkii Butter (Shea)Rovisome Retinol Moist (this is potentially just a marketing ingredient too)Euxy PE 9010 -
@Pharma - Thanks. I was curious and what you say makes sense. The whole notion of an MIC applicable to all microorganisms seemed dubious.
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There are a lot of worthless ingredients in that list. You could pair it down to this and make a formula that is just as good. Of course, you also need to add a preservative.
Ingredients: Water (Aqua), Zea Mays (Corn) Starch, Lecithin, Mica, Copernicia Cerifera (Carnauba) Wax, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Powder, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil
Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), Iron Oxides (CI 77499, CI 77491, CI 77492).
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Interesting info. Do you have a question?
Also, the specific type of oil you use can make a difference.
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You preserve the final product to the level that it requires. The preservative in your aloe juice will not typically be robust enough for your final formula. But only testing of your final product can tell you for sure.
My philosophy: when in doubt, add preservative.
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I agree with @Pharma but before you can get any help, you need to make a prototype and see what’s wrong with it.
In general, however, this is too complicated a task for you to take on as your first formula. If it indeed is your first formula, try to make a simple mask. And don’t use 20 ingredients. Try to make a mask with 5 ingredients. Once you can do that, then start adding features. You’ve got to learn to walk before you can sprint.
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The price should be determined by what your customers are willing to pay.
If your customers are the people on this forum, then asking us what is a good price is a good idea. However, it’s unlikely most of the people here are your customer base. But maybe there are some.
Whether you think $50 is way too low doesn’t matter much. It’s whether your customers think it’s too low (or too high) that matters.
To figure out your price, ask and answer a few questions.
1. Who are your customers? You say people who want to start their own line but you should get more specific about this. Is it chemists who want to start their own line? Is it social media influencers that want to start their own line? Is it people who already have a brand and want to expand? You’ve got to narrow it down.
2. Where are your customers? There might be some customers here but not enough for you to make a lot of money at this. If you’re not getting feedback from the Facebook groups you’ve asked, you probably don’t have many customers there either. Do you have an email list? Do you know other people who have an email list that would be willing to rent it to you?
3. What are your competitor’s asking? Are they even selling any books?
You can find formulation books on Amazon that go for $6 - https://amzn.to/2XdOZRb
or some that go for $170 - https://amzn.to/2IHZtix
4. Will anyone buy this at all? Before you even write the book you need to to know this answer. You should also ask your potential customers what topics they specifically want covered. Just because you think gel glitter is cool, that doesn’t necessarily mean your customers will want to learn to make them.
Another thing, your background will also play into how much you can charge. A book by a “self taught” formulator wouldn’t be able to command as high a price as a book by a “cosmetic chemist with 20 years experience in industry.” Of course, this still depends on your customer. Maybe they would see this as a plus.
The bottom line is keep the customer in mind, talk to them, and they’ll tell you how much to charge. If you are not getting answers about pricing, that means you have not found where your customers hang out. Keep looking.
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The surfactant active matter is what matters. The rest of the volume is just water in the surfactants. For example, if you use 50% of a 30% active SLS, you are really using 15% SLS with the remaining 35% being water.
As for your surfactants, that depends on what your customers expect in terms of performance. I don’t think your selection will make a particularly foamy, nice feeling product but that’s just my taste. I would use Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Cocamidopropyl Betaine. Versions of these are approved in the COSMOS standard.
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The term “mild shampoo” is a marketing term. You can define it however you want so you can use 15%, 40%, 4%…it doesn’t matter. You just need to justify it if challenged in your claims. If you sell a normal formula with 16% surfactant, you can sell a mild formula that has 15%.
I’m not sure what you mean by “Total surfactant per weight in my shampoo is 44,5 %” It looks like your surfactant level is 13%
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@Gunther - they also love Olaplex