OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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I’ve used knowde a bunch and there are things I like about it. The search display is better than UL Prospector and the search process seems a bit more user friendly.
However, their algorithms are a bit dumb and give erroneous information. For example, I do a search for “preservatives” and it gives back examples like…
Neolipid™ SC Biobarrier - not a preservative
STEOL® CA-460 - (ammonium lauryl sulfate) - not a preservativeAnd these are on the first page. If you go to the next page you just find a bunch of surfactants that no one who is looking for a preservative would ever use as a preservative.
The same thing happens with other searches. It’s just a dumb search engine which needs to be smarter to make it useful.
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@Cafe33 - I don’t find it surprising that they would mess up the LOI. It was probably put together by a contract manufacturer who isn’t too worried about ingredient list accuracy. They may even just have a computer program that spits out the ingredient list.
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@PomadeCraft - yes, fear marketing is alive and well in the cosmetic industry. That’s because it’s effective. But the ingredients most frequently used in cosmetic formulating have been safety tested and are safe to use at levels in normally used in cosmetics.
The primary reason for avoiding parabens is because they have a poor reputation.
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Parabens do not have carcinogenic properties.
https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/Parabens_0.pdf -
You conduct a cosmetic stability test.
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I’d say Polyquaternium-37. Although Dimethicone Copolyol or dimethicone would be even better.
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I suspect it is because you want to make a homogenous mixtures so that when the emulsion forms the particles are all made up of consistent “stuff”. This would help with reproducibility from batch to batch.
If you blend everything together all at the same time you might have some micelles filled with one type of oil phase ingredient and another with other oil phase ingredients. This may lead to instability because the particles will coalesce at different rates.
I can’t explain the particular case that you’re describing except to say every system is a bit different.
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Having multiple cationic polymers is just overkill and most of it just runs down the drain. You could probably simplify and just put 4% Polyquat 7.
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My guesses are…
1. The manufacturing equipment in the industry is not set up to make them
2. They are probably more expensive to make and current technology works well enough
3. Nanoparticles - there is some consumer hesitation about nanoparticles.That would be my guess. Since they’ve been around for a long time and haven’t caught on, it’s probably that the cost/benefit doesn’t justify using them.
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Any of them (except water) could be producing the smell. Or maybe just a combination of ingredients. You’ll need to do a knock-out experiment to figure out which one is the main culprit.
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Well, you’ll need to also use water and probably some salt to thicken it up. And fragrance is always nice along with a preservative system. But yeah, SLS + Betaine makes a fine shampoo. That was the base surfactants for most VO5 Shampoos.
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Dump the alternative preservative system and go with some proven, safer and easier to work with parabens.
Nothing in phase 3 will have an impact on your formula performance. Those ingredients are just added for claims reasons. It’s best to leave them out.
When you are first formulating try to keep it simple. Fewer ingredients are better. For example, Squalane, Jojoga Oil, Carpylic/Carpic triglycerides are all essentially having the same function. You might just consider using only one of those. Once you get something stable then you can try adding in additional ingredients.
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What oil system are you emulsifying?
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Yes, I foresee stability problems doing it that way.
You’ll probably still have stability problems however you might try heating both the base formula and the shea butter (probably to 75C). Then mixing them together at the high temperature maybe 20 minutes, then cooling the batch. You might still need to use a homogenizer and this might also still not be stable. You’ll also probably need to add more preservative too.
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Yeah, you could try a different acid. HCl, acetic acid, phosphoric acid. Or try adding the citric acid as a solution (20% aqueous) instead of directly as crystlas.
You might also consider adding some Cocamidopropyl Betaine
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The problem is that your question is not posed in a way that will lead to a simple answer. Mostly because there is no simple answer.
What do you mean by “most powerful”?
Do you mean the solubilizer that is most compatible with the most number of different compounds?
Do you mean the solublizer that works at a very low level?
Picking a solublizer is not just a matter of identifying one super solubilzer. What you use as a solubilizer depends on what ingredients you are solubilizing.
There is no “most powerful solubilizer.” There is only “a solubilizer that works best for my system.” Without knowing what you are trying to solubilize, we can’t be much help beyond suggesting things that are known solubilizers. Polysorbates are used more frequently than any other solubilizer so without more information I’d say they are the “most powerful.”
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Ah, that makes more sense. Text is sometimes an inefficient way to communicate.
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@Majman - which formulators on here have advocated using benzene? That is not a good idea but I don’t think I’ve ever read that here before.
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You can add Glyceryl Stearate to help stabilize it. (0.5% maybe)
You can also add Hydroxyethylcellulose (~1%) to thicken it. -
What kind of mixer are you using? If you’re using a stick blender those are not appropriate for a cleanser formula. They draw in too much air.
You can find formulas in the sources listed here.
https://chemistscorner.com/where-to-find-free-cosmetic-formulas/ -
Ah. So the problem is that you are using olive oil. Olive oil is very slightly soluble in water. When you shake up your system you create a small layer of an emulsion which is the third layer.
To fix this, I imagine you would need to replace the olive oil with something that is more insoluble in water. Maybe increasing the level of almond oil and decreasing the level of olive oil. Also, using Butylene Glycol may make the oils a tiny bit more soluble. So maybe reducing those levels might help too.
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Prior to mixing, does the oil phase or water phase exist in multiple phases?
That is to say, when you make up just the water phase, does it separate? or when you make up just the oil phase, does it separate?
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The only thing proven save and effective to the satisfaction of the FDA is hydroquinone.
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@ozgirl - ah yes, colorants are an issue. US isn’t strict in a lot of areas but with colorants they are. Here’s the relevant regulations.
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-ingredient-names/color-additives-permitted-use-cosmetics
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If you are compliant with the EU standards (except for sunscreen or perhaps other OTC products) you can sell in the US. It doesn’t necessarily work the other way though. The EU requires more proof of testing. The US requires testing but doesn’t require you to show proof prior to market launch.
Pretty much if you follow the EU regulations, you’ll be compliant in most places around the world.