OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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What do you want to use it for?
It’s soluble in water so you can pretty much just put it in the water phase.
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Carbomer or some other Acrylic Polymer.
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Not really.
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The preservative that you use depends on what type of product you are making along with the pH and formula structure. You’ll need to be a bit more specific in what you are asking.
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@MAGDA - Welcome to the forum. I’d suggest you start a discussion if you have a preservative question.
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The 1% line is probably just before the Fragrance or maybe after Behentrimonium Chloride.
Cationic surfactants can provide slip so the ingredients in this formula that do that include…
Behetrimonium Methosulfate
Behentrimonium Chloride
Cetrimonium ChlorideWhy your particular formula doesn’t have the slip effect most likely has to do with the amounts you’ve used or the way you’ve incorporated them into the formula.
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@Pattsi - “…some might find yourself sweating more than you expected… “
This is a very interesting question. I have experienced this (especially after going for a run then showering). I wonder if the cause has really been studied or if it is simply a logical deduction based on theories of how the sweat system works. I do not know. Must look into this further… -
Phenoxyethanol & sorbic acid are heat stable so that shouldn’t be a problem.
But in general, adulterating existing products in the way that you described is not a good idea. You could be breaking the emulsion structure, altering the pH, or otherwise destabilizing the formula. It may still be fine or you may ruin the product. It’s hard to say without actually testing it.
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My comments on the video. While I’m sure the presenter has lots of experience of what works for him, the information is biased and his explanations for why things work are not supported by science. It sounds like his education on why things works came from product marketers, not scientific studies. For example…
A. He says “you have to balance the pH of skin…” and then explains the problems with not having a “balanced pH”. This is marketing speak and this explanation is not supported by science. There are no studies looking at the pH of skin (which isn’t technically a thing anyway) and the ability to absorb or reject products.
B. “Glycerin is going to swell the hair” - No. Hair will swell when exposed to water because it absorbs water. Glycerin will not have any significant impact on the swelling of hair.
C. Use of oil - Adding an extra layer of oil below the shaving cream is adding lubrication that you don’t need. If you are using a good shaving cream that is formulated properly, it will provide all the lubrication you need for shaving. Adding the oil simply gets in the way of the function of the shaving cream. You are essentially trying to shave a “dirty / oily” surface. Adding oil negates the initial cleansing.
To your points…
1. Cleaning your face with a standard cleanser would be the most efficient thing to do. However, unless you have a particularly dirty face, you don’t need to clean your face first. When I shave, I don’t clean my face first. The shaving cream is made of surfactants which will also help to clean the face. But you may get a nicer shave or you might enjoy the experience if you clean your face first. It just isn’t really required.
2. Simply putting water on your face is all the hydration you need. You do not need additional products. They will also not help the hair swell more than by just using water. Marketers have convinced people they need extra products when they don’t really need them.
3. You don’t need to “seal hydration.” The shaving cream provides all the lubrication you need. No oil sealant is needed. In fact, it will likely interfere with the function of the shaving cream.
4. The creation of this layer is done by the shaving cream. No additional products are needed.
If your three ingredient solution works for your skin, then that’s great. Keep using it. However, you can get the same or likely better results by just using a standard shaving cream. This really isn’t that complicated.
Truth be told, unless I have a few days of stubble, I shave in the shower using the warm water + the razor and nothing else. I may or may not wash my face before shaving. I don’t get razor burn and it works fine for me. Using shaving cream generally makes it a bit less painful & more enjoyable experience, but just using the water is perfectly fine for me.
Product marketers have a habit of making things seem much more complicated than they actually are.
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@SunSkin - yes, we do cover them in the formulation course but we go more in-depth in our raw material course.
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It depends on the preservative system but yes, it could destroy the preservative system. It may or may not be a good idea.
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Yes, it depends on what natural standard you are following.
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No, unless you know the formula, you can’t really get the exact percentages.
You could weigh a sample, put it in an oven for a few hours, then weigh it again. That will give you the approximate percentage of water.
You’ll have to guess at the rest.The product doesn’t have a strong hold because you’re taking out a good technology and replacing it with some that is inferior. If you want stronger hold, use the Acrylates. For the most part, natural ingredients do not work as well as synthetic ones. If they did, that would be the technology that people use.
Synthetic ingredients are made specifically to perform better than whatever natural material it is replacing.
We don’t ride horses (natural) because cars (synthetic) work better.
Natural = performs worse
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Glycerin kills the foam and doesn’t provide any real benefit in the product. It is water soluble and simply washes down the drain. So, all negative no positive - no reason to use it.
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Sounds like an allergic reaction to something. It could also be the preservative. What are you using?
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You can do that.
But the important question is what are you trying to accomplish? What kind of formula are you trying to make
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This is a good question. The marketing of raw materials and products makes it seem like you can get everything done in one product. The reality is that multi-function products don’t work as well as single products used in series.
If you have hair tresses you can do a simple test to show this is true. Wash it with a regular shampoo, then apply a conditioner. Then comb the hair. Wash another tress with a 2-in-1 shampoo (e.g. Pantene) and comb the hair & compare. The shampoo+conditioner system will work better than the 2-in-1 shampoo.
1. I agree with @LincsChemist. The ingredient that cleans & provides lubrication are the same. As long as the ingredient is on the face it is lubricating, then when you rinse it off it cleans.
2. I’m not sure this general description is specific enough to give any kind of answer. What is are the “good results” that you would be referring to? A specific example would be more helpful for answering.
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Agree - what exactly do you want to fix? What do you mean when you say it “feels harder while shampooing…”?
But just eyeballing your formula, you should remove the Glycerin, Cocamide DEA, Cetrimonium Chloride, Titanium Dioxide, and Vitamin E. Then reduce Polyquaternium 7 to 1%. Then see what you get.
Generally, you shouldn’t mix cationic surfactants with anionic surfactants.
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You can call it whatever you want. These are marketing terms with no strict, scientific or legal definition.
As an aside, I used to work on a brand called VO5 Hot Oil. There wasn’t any “oil” in it.
Use the term that will be most compelling to your consumers.
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Putting extracts in a shampoo at a high level is an inefficient and unproductive way to formulate. If you want a product that performs well, you should minimize the amount of extracts in your formula. They aren’t doing anything and they will only make the product perform worse. If you want to use them for marketing purposes, you can put them in at a low level (0.1% or less) and then talk about them in your marketing.
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The first thing you have to do is to tell us what you are using as a definition for the term “natural.” If you use my definition (everything that isn’t supernatural is natural) then you’ve already got a natural shampoo.
If you use the definition that natural means the ingredients are produced out in nature, then water and salt may be the only thing in your formula that is natural.
I suspect that your definition is somewhere between those two extremes.
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True, however you can say that of lots of ingredients.
I didn’t verify all of these but assuming this is mostly valid, there are a lot of ingredients with sensitizing potential.
https://www.paulaschoice.com/ingredient-dictionary/sensitizing -
@Pharma - it’s not banned in leave-on in Canada as far as I could tell. https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/methylisothiazolinone-and-methylchloroisothiazolinone Chemicals get banned from products more for political reasons than for scientific reasons. I wouldn’t expect a report on product safety to talk about the politics of the ingredient.
The EU conclusion seems to support the use of the ingredient. What am I missing?
“On the basis of the data submitted, the SCCS is of the opinion that the mixture of 5-chloro2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one and 2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one in a ratio of 3:1 does not pose a risk to the health of the consumer when used as a preservative up to a maximum authorised concentration of 0.0015 % in rinse-off cosmetic products, apart from its sensitising potential.”
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There are certainly cases of people being wrong about drugs. I will note that in the US, the FDA never approve Thalidomided due to safety concerns.
What evidence is missing from the CIR report? These are controlled studies which are the same types of studies run on most other cosmetic ingredients to prove safety.
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I am not a toxicologist so I defer to the judgement of toxicologists when it comes to ingredient safety.
The toxicologists on the Cosmetic Ingredient Review board (CIR) presumably would know about this and all subsequent studies. If the ingredient was unsafe as a preservative, why would an independent group of scientists conclude that it was safe?