Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Help Understanding This Hair Mask - How does it have slip without silicone?

  • Help Understanding This Hair Mask - How does it have slip without silicone?

    Posted by snowflake113 on October 5, 2020 at 1:25 pm

    Hi Everyone,

    I’m an at home formulator trying to make a similar product for myself. This product is a hair mask and has a lot of slip leaves my hair soft and conditioned but supposedly contains no silicones. I’ve created several conditioners for myself with similar ingredients (BTMS-50, CETAC 30, Cetearyl alcohol, Cetyl alcohol, coconut oil) but they don’t have much slip, so I’m confused.

    Which ingredients could contribute to slip and ease in detangling in this hair mask? Is it the Behentrimonium chloride, it only looks like they used a little though?

    Are they using BTMS-25?

    Can anyone tell me where the 1% line starts?

    Thanks!

    Here is the ingredient list:

    WATER (AQUA), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, CETYL ALCOHOL, COCOS NUCIFERA (COCONUT) OIL, BEHENTRIMONIUM METHOSULFATE, BUTYROSPERMUM PARKII (SHEA) BUTTER*+, GLYCERIN (VEGETABLE), STEARYL ALCOHOL, FRAGRANCE (ESSENTIAL OIL BLEND), BEHENTRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, PANTHENOL, HYDROLYZED RICE PROTEIN TRICHILIA EMETICA (MAFURA) SEED OIL, HONEY, ADANSONIA DIGITATA (BAOBAB) SEED OIL, CETRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, PERSEA GRATISSIMA (AVOCADO) OIL, FICUS CARICA (FIG) EXTRACT, MANGIFERA INDICA (MANGO) SEED BUTTER, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, CAPRYLHYDROXAMIC ACID, CAPRYLYL GLYCOL.

    snowflake113 replied 3 years, 8 months ago 3 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • OldPerry

    Member
    October 5, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    The 1% line is probably just before the Fragrance or maybe after Behentrimonium Chloride.

    Cationic surfactants can provide slip so the ingredients in this formula that do that include…

    Behetrimonium Methosulfate
    Behentrimonium Chloride
    Cetrimonium Chloride

    Why your particular formula doesn’t have the slip effect most likely has to do with the amounts you’ve used or the way you’ve incorporated them into the formula.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    October 5, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    Polyquaternium 10 and cationic guar might improve the slip a lot. And as Perry mentioned the amount of cationic emulsifiers does matter a lot. Although I personally like silicones in almost everything, I don’t think they contribute to slip effect in conditioners.

  • snowflake113

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 3:15 am

    @Perry Thank you! What usage rate of those three ingredients would you suggest to provide good slip for detangling? I typically use BTMS-50 at 3-4% and centrimonium chloride at 2% in rinse off formulas. I’m ordering some Behentrimonium Chloride, hopefully it will improve the slip of my conditioner.
    I read that shea butter and other butters can make conditioner have less slip and detangling ability in this forum. I reformulated my original conditioner formula that was oil and butter heavy hoping to increase the slip but after trying the new version the slip was not still not there and my felt dry after rinsing. How do you think this product is able to have such good slip even with the oils and butters? Could the Cetearyl alcohol and Cetyl Alcohol contribute to this? I’m just trying to find out why my conditioner isn’t working well.

    This is my LOI for my formula:

    80.80% water
    3.00% honeyquat
    3.00% btms 50
    2.80% CETAC 30
    2.75% cetearyl alcohol
    2.50% daikon seed extract
    1.00% virgin coconut oil
    0.85% pumpkin seed oil
    0.50% dl-panthenol
    0.90% fragrance
    1.50% optiphen
    0.10% shea butter
    0.10% mango butter
    0.10% vitamin e
    0.10% rosehip seed oil
    100.00%

    I appreciate any additional guidance.

    @ngarayeva001 Thanks! I will look into getting a cationic guar - is there a specific one that you would recommend? Is Honeyquat comparable to Polyquaternium 10? I have Honeyquat and use it at a rate of about 2-3% but haven’t noticed much conditioning from it.

  • snowflake113

    Member
    October 9, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    Can anyone offer me advice on why my conditioner formulation is not moisturizing and does not have slip? Do I have too many oils? Or it is just lacking the ingredients previously mentioned in this discussion?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    October 10, 2020 at 1:30 pm

    Just looking at your formula, I will offer this advice.

    You have too many ingredients.  Start simple.  Fewer ingredients are better to start with because that way you know what ingredients are providing what impact. Once you get the primary function of the formula working, you can go back and add the “fluff” ingredients.

    So, your formula should start with…

    Water

    btms 50
    CETAC 30
    cetearyl alcohol
    fragrance
    optiphen - preservative
    If you make this formula and it doesn’t give slip, first try increasing the level of BTMS and CETAC.  If you want to add other ingredients like the ones I list below as “claims” ingredients, only add ONE at a time. That way you know what effect the ingredient has on the formula.

    These are all “claims” ingredients that aren’t expected to provide much additional benefit - honeyquat, dl-panthenol, pumpkin seed oil, daikon seed extract, virgin coconut oil, shea butter, mango butter, vitamin e, rosehip seed oil.

    For example, if you are including CETAC & BTMS, any effect that Honeyquat could provide on its own would be completely overwhelmed by those other ingredients. Think of it this way. Imagine you are painting a wall. Using Honeyquat is like painting the wall with a tiny jar of liquid paper (white out). It will cover the wall but it’s really hard and takes a long time.  Using CETAC is like painting the wall with a large brush and a bucket of paint. It is pointless to use both ingredients.

    The more ingredients you put into a formula, the more complicated the system becomes and the less likely you are to be able to make little tweaks to get some improved effect. 

  • snowflake113

    Member
    October 10, 2020 at 1:40 pm

    @Perry Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it!

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