OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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@Sincityfire - some companies take advantage of a grey area in the regulations. The argument is that if an ingredient has benefits in addition to coloring the product, then using the ingredient is fine. After all, most oils are yellow and they are fine to use.
But the FDA regulations are clear that if your intention is to add an ingredient for coloring your product, it is a color additive. It cannot be used for that purpose unless it is on the approved list.
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I will point out that in the US it is illegal to use extracts to color your products if they are not listed on the FDA approved cosmetic colorant list.
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Yes, it means your preservative system fails. (phytocide aspen bark extract is not a reliable preservative)
Just because you didn’t notice any changes doesn’t mean they weren’t happening. Microbes are invisible until there is enough growth that you can see them.
No, the tests are not inaccurate. However, they are also not adequate for preservative testing for a product you are going to sell. For that you will need a proper preservative efficacy test.
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Yes, it looks like GelMaker EMU could be substituted for Simulgel INS 100 although it might not quite work the same.
Whether you can use the pre-neutralized polymer or not also depends on what other things you have in there and the pH.
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Definition of clear? I’d say it’s like water
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@PhilGeis - I think it’s “natural” in that it doesn’t come from a “supernatural” source so, you know, natural.
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@Formulator - Yes, I would guess the lawyers figured J&J might be in a settlement mood.
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@Formulator - Strange how the lawsuit is only going after J&J but not after all the smaller brands that also had traces of benzene in them. I wonder why that would be…
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Yes, it can do that since it is a cationic surfactant and will interact with charged micelles and other electrolytes. But it could also increase viscosity depending on what else is in the formula. The conditioner I worked on, we used ~0.5 - 1% cetrimonium chloride. Hair masks are just thickened conditioners so you can use the same level for those.
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I removed the duplicate posts. In the future, just contact me to delete anything.
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And for a shampoo, you should really reduce the Argan oil. 4% is way too much! It’s simply a claims ingredient that gets washed down the drain. It will have no benefit for hair in a shampoo. Rather, it reduces foam, reduces viscosity, could add to the cause of separation and interferes with cleaning ability. It’s generally not a good idea to add oils to a shampoo formula.
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@MarkBroussard - Interesting. I agree different skin, different reactions. I used Old Spice deodorant once and it caused a red rash under my armpits. Just went back to my old Speed Stick standard and problem disappeared.
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Even if a company doesn’t market a product as a drug, the FDA still might consider it a drug. I think the Paula’s example is in a grey area because it’s clear consumers perceive it to be a drug product. One of the ways to determine if something is a drug is “intended use” and on way to determine a product’s intended use is by checking with consumer perception of a product.
“Consumer perception, which may be established through the product’s reputation. This means asking why the consumer is buying it and what the consumer expects it to do.”
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/it-cosmetic-drug-or-both-or-it-soap
They haven’t been called out on it…yet.
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It’s likely they changed the formula, but I personally formulated the Tresemme shampoos & conditioners back in 2004 - 2005 ish. Skin peeling was not a problem noted in any of our safety testing.
In looking at the formula now, they use Sodium C12-13 Pareth Sulfate as the main surfactant. Perhaps that’s a problem for you. But I will note they don’t have a single formula used across the line so it’s not exactly accurate to say “Tresemme shampoo causes skin peeling.” Perhaps the SKU that you tried did. That doesn’t mean they all do.
@PhilGeis - I think the main reason we’re seeing this lawsuit now is because a few years back Suave settled a similar lawsuit. That opened the floodgates.
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I still see @Bobzchemist and @Belassi on Facebook or maybe LinkedIn. I’ve always appreciated their input here. But no one gets paid to post here and I appreciate any input by anyone who has something to share on this forum.
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@PhilGeis - I wouldn’t call it “wokeness” just stupid.
J&J did not create OGX, they bought the brand in 2016. https://drugstorenews.com/beauty/johnson-johnson-buy-ogx-shampoo-maker-b Most likely, they simply didn’t make the preservative change because there was no compelling reason to change it.
@MarkBroussard - there are alternative preservative options for the moment. What happens in 5 years when people start suing and claim that Benzoic acid, Benzyl Alcohol, potassium sorbate or phenoxyethanol harmed them?
CIR & SCCS say these ingredients are safe for use in cosmetics. That’s all that should matter. If it affects sales then brands that don’t use those ingredients will have an opportunity. I personally doubt these things have much real impact on the vast majority of consumer’s decision to buy products.
Incidentally, in 2005 I washed my hair with the Tresemme shampoo base over 500 times. Never had any peeling or any other problem with the product.
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If you are making a “hair oil” which is meant to soften hair and make it more manageable or feel nicer, then 5% oil would certainly have an impact.
If you’re making a “hair growth oil” then neither 5% or 100% of any oil ingredient is going to work. Oils are not proven to make hair grow.
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You can see a replay of the webinar here. https://event.webinarjam.com/replay/50/2o746slluqoan5arrp3
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Depends on the ingredient. There is no 5% rule that applies to everything.
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My guess would be that by adding Coconut Oil you are on the cusp of an unstable system. When you add the hydrolyzed keratin you step over the line and make your system unstable. Take out the coconut oil.
There is no point in adding oils to shampoo systems. Shampoos are meant to REMOVE oil. All you do by putting an oil in your system is your tie up surfactant so it won’t be available to clean the hair.
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I think the best performing 2-in-1 shampoo is Pantene.
They have Dimethicone, Dimethiconol, and Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride. There’s also panthenol but that is not really a functional ingredient and just there for claims.
Previously, they had only included Dimethicone & Polyquaternium 10. I doubt consumers could tell any difference between the old formula and the new one.
The key is to have conditioning agents that work in different ways. A silicone conditions in a way different than a cationic polymer. So it makes sense to include each. It makes less sense to include multiple different cationic polymers and multiple different silicones.
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“Would the viscosity increase or decrease if i use Cetyl Alcohol instead of cetearyl alcohol? ” - I don’t know. You have to run the experiment in your system and find the answer.
But the real answer is, the system is too complicated to simply say whether it will increase or decrease the viscosity. There are factors of solubility, polarity, ingredient purity not to mention particle size, forces involved during mixing, etc. Unless you create a phase diagram you have no idea of what the crystalline structure will be.
All the stuff written about it from makingskincare is just theoretical musings about some imagined idealized formula.
People generally use Cetearyl Alcohol because having a blend of fatty alcohols leads to a more stable formula than single fatty alcohols. But then again, it depends on the system.
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Depends on the system & the amount used.
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It is for styling hair. It gives the “slick” look. We used it in VO5 Hairdressing. It was not meant fir the scalp