OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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A small amount (0.2%) of Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride may also help improve the quality of your foam.
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@Cafe33 - yes, I can certainly see that there are some applications for encapsulation. And fragrance is one of the main ones. Although, in what you describe what would also have been nice to see is a control sample which had carbomer, the essential oil, etc but not put through your spice grinder process. Simply, just mixed with no attempt to encapsulate. Then compare the two samples side by side to see if the encapsulation made any noticeable difference.
But having said that I don’t doubt that ingredients can be encapsulated.
What I doubt is the process of taking an encapsulated ingredient, putting it into a finished formulation, and expecting that it is going to not break open during manufacture but it will break open when consumers use the product.
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@Abdullah - You can’t assume that all the information in a patent is correct. There are often significant errors. It’s a weakness in the patent issuing process.
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The ingredient name you use ultimately comes down to where you are selling your product. Assuming US, then the proper name to use is what is listed in the INCI dictionary as published by the PCPC.
From the FDA rules…
Identification of Ingredients by NameThe name established by the commissioner as specified in § 701.30.The name adopted for the ingredient as listed in:(a) CTFA Cosmetic Ingredient Dictionary(b) United States Pharmacopeia(c) National Formulary(d) Food Chemical Codex(e) USAN and the USP Dictionary of Drug NamesThe name generally recognized by consumersThe chemical or technical name or descriptionThis is the order of priority. So, if there is a name established by the FDA, that is the one to use. After that, if there is a name used by the INCI Dictionary (the old CTFA Cosmetic Ingredient Dictionary), then you use that. If there is no established name, then go to US Pharmacopeia…etc. But if the name appears in the INCI dictionary, that is what you are required to use.
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The fact that Aloe is ahead of water in the listing demonstrates they do not understand labeling regulations. So, the entire list is suspect and unreliable.
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@Cafe33 - It’s like substituting a horse for a car. Sure, they’ll both get you where you want to be but there is a difference. Hydrocarbons just do not have the same feel as silicones. But in some formulas the consumer may not really notice any difference.
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You can’t use Carbomer to thicken an oil.
Although, perhaps you have other ingredients in your formula?
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Thanks for adding the follow-up! It makes the forum better by letting people know whether advice worked.
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I start my evaluation of new technologies from a position of skepticism. I try not to be cynical so remain open minded to whether a new technology will “work” or not.
It’s important to define what “work” means though. You see even if this technology did what they say (building more bonds, making hair stronger, etc.) that still wouldn’t mean that it “works” in my opinion.
Working to me would satisfy the condition that “if a consumer used a product would they notice a substantial difference from just using a standard shampoo and conditioner”? Since I know consumers are absolutely terrible at noticing differences, then even if this product did as they claim, I would contend that it doesn’t actually work. On a blinded basis and from a consumer perspective this product will do nothing that Pantene, Tresemme, Fructis, etc. rinse-out conditioners will do.
I mean their main claim
“when should i expect to see results?“
You will start to see stronger, softer, healthier hair after just one use.This is the same claim every single hair conditioner can make!
There are a number of red flags. Why does the about page feature salon professionals rather than the scientists who invented the product? Why do they include Behentrimonium Chloride in the conditioner product when the peptide is supposed to be doing the work? Why include wheat protein and wheat starch when that will just interfere with the peptide? And $75 for a 50 mL sample that contains mostly water, alcohol, and propylene glycol…oh my!
Their evidence isn’t even a little convincing. Where are the comparisons of Shampoo vs Shampoo / Conditioner vs their product? Where are the combing studies? Where are the Diastron/Instron measurements comparing this technology to silicones or standard conditioners or even Olaplex?
Perhaps I’m wrong. I’ve not seen any evidence about the technology that I am, but I remain willing to change my mind.
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If the “salt” was sodium nitrate you could dissolve that much in water. So, if you did a blend of sodium nitrate and sodium chloride you could probably get your 6lbs to a gallon ratio.
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I would add that in practice encapsulation is a marketing story that doesn’t work in real life. Even big corporations & raw material suppliers haven’t solved some of the fundamental problems related to production.
Either you make an encapsulated particle strong enough to withstand the formula manufacturing process which means it will be too strong to break open when a consumer uses the product.
or you make an encapsulated product weaker so it breaks open when a consumer uses it, but then it just breaks open during manufacture.
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Unlikely as you need special mixing equipment to encapsulate the material.
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Just remember, raw material suppliers are also marketers. You can’t believe everything they say about their ingredients. (Although you can believe some things)
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This type of product in the US is regulated by the EPA and is not considered a cosmetic. You can learn more about it here.
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That level is fine for hair or skin
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@Abdullah - Carbon Dioxide is produced by yeast.
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Salt level can certainly cause that. But what are the ingredients in the shampoo?
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Leucidal always cracks me up.
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See this post about ingredient expiration dates.
tldr: Expiration dates are arbitrary for raw materials. If something adheres to its original specifications and is not contaminated then it can be considered “good.”
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Yes.
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Perhaps we’re just getting better at detecting trace amounts of benzene?
I don’t know where it’s coming from but it seems to be due to specific production plants so it’s a manufacturing issue. -
If you want to become a chemist and create formulas, then by all means learn how to become a formulator. You can do this by finding free formulas or going through a course like ours https://chemistscorner.com/learn-more/practical-cosmetic-formulating/
But if you really want to start a line of products, it would be a waste of your time to learn how to formulate. You should hire someone to make the formulas for you (with your input of course). Then focus on learning how to market and sell the product.
I dare say there are almost no successful brands that relied on the person who started the brand to know how to formulate.
Marketing & selling are completely different skills than learning to formulate.
You might find our free report here helpful. https://chemists-corner.aweb.page/p/532b3807-655c-4a7c-8f63-2148331f8484 -
Yes, CIR refers to the US market. Go figure, the US is more strict than the EU.
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@Abdullah - an excellent tool…
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According to Google searches, Ginger Lilly shampoo is recently popular