[OldPerry]

@David - of course you are correct and removing/reducing all the ingredients I said could significantly change aspects of the formula.

I just think it is incredibly difficult to demonstrate a difference with and without an active in the lab and even more difficult for a consumer to notice any difference.  Formulators should limit themselves to things in which they can prove an effect.

My philosophy is this…If you can’t show a consumer perceptible difference between when an ingredient is present or absent then you should only use the ingredient at claims levels (0.1% or less).

When you have over a dozen “active” ingredients the chances of you being able to show a difference with the removal of half of them or more are slim to none.

[OldPerry]

If it’s not a problem now, I bet it will be a problem in the future.

[OldPerry]

Building on what Bob said the following ingredients are likely superfluous and could be significantly reduced or removed without any significant impact on your formula. 

Vitamin B3

Glucosamine Powder

Eco silk

Honeyquat

Hydrolyzed Oat Protein

Bearberry

Licorice Root Extract

Epidermis & Sebum Balancer

Hyaluronic Acid

Allantoin Powder

Vitamin E

sweet orange  (t) x 4 drop

lavender 

Rose Geranium

Neroli

Roman Chamomile

[OldPerry]

You could try a different acid like Lactic Acid.  Or even Hydrochloric acid.  

What is the pH of the formula without any Citric Acid?

[OldPerry]

You can not legally make the claim that a material “stimulates collagen production” in cosmetics sold in the US.

You can read their position here.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm439270.htm

The ingredient would be allowed in the US.  You just couldn’t say that it is stimulating collagen.  It’s highly dependent on the claims.

[OldPerry]

Thanks for the update!

I’d be curious to see what they count in terms of sales.  It is surprising to me that L’Oreal is above Unilever and P&G.  Both of those are much larger companies.

[OldPerry]

Welcome to all our new members!

[OldPerry]

Menthol, Tea Tree oil and Fragrance will all cover up odor.  None of the ingredients would really work to prevent odor.

[OldPerry]

Perhaps they are considering themselves “professional products” which the FDA doesn’t regulate the same way.  For example, here they say (with regards to labeling) 

“This requirement does not apply to cosmetics distributed solely for professional use, institutional use (such as in schools or the workplace), or as free samples or hotel amenities.”

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulations/ucm074162.htm

[OldPerry]

That’s not enough information to get much of a response. What product are you trying to make? What benefits are you trying to deliver? What other ingredients can you use? etc.

[OldPerry]

Yes, it really depends on the type of oils you are using too.

[OldPerry]

I sent the information to you via email.

[OldPerry]

Cetearyl alcohol is a blend of Cetyl Alcohol and Stearyl Alcohol.  In some cases you might be able to use stearic acid as a replacement but it really depends on the formula.

[OldPerry]

Serum is a marketing term usually referring to a clear, slightly thickened liquid formula. But there is no scientific definition of serums.

[OldPerry]

@Bobzchemist - they were looking for help figuring out how the ingredient would be used in cosmetics.

[OldPerry]

The LOI could be in the proper order.  According to INCI labeling rules you need to list things in order of concentration for everything above 1% so…

Water

Cetyl Alcohol

---

1% line

---

Everything else in any order you want

This label just suggests that everything is at 1% or less after Cetyl Alcohol.  This actually makes sense if the product is meant to be leave on or rinse off.

Here’s my guess….

Water (Aqua) - qs to 100% (about 90%)

Cetyl Alcohol - 5%

Sambucus Nigra Flower Extract (Elder) - 0.1%

Wheat Germ Glycerides - 0.1%

Panthenol (Vitamin B5) - 0.05%

Cetearyl Alcohol, - 1%

Cetrimonium Bromide, - 0.4%

PEG 100 Stearate, - 0.2%

Behentrimonium Methosulfate, - 0.5%

Lactamide MEA - 0.5%

Propylene Glycol, - 1%

Citric Acid, -pH adjuster maybe 0.5% 

Tetrasodium EDTA, - 0.2%

Methylparaben, - 0.2%

Polymethoxy Bicyclic Oxazolidine - 0.2%

Propylparaben, - 0.15%

Fragrance (Parfum) - 0.2%

[OldPerry]

Panthenol and Wheat Glycerides are their sales ingredients, not likely the ones having much noticeable effect.

Here are the ingredients that matter.

Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Bromide, PEG 100 Stearate, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Lactamide MEA, Fragrance (Parfum)

[OldPerry]

I know SLES, SLS at 15% active (combined) plus 2% Coco DEA will thicken to 5000 cps with 1.5% salt.  Of course this depends on the quality of your raw materials and your pH so that’s just a rough estimate.

[OldPerry]

Conduct a standard stability test.

[OldPerry]

Mixing anionic surfactants with cationic surfactants doesn’t work.  You end up with a water insoluble precipitate.

That is the basis for the VO5 hot oil technology which required you to put the product on hair first (it’s a cationic surfactant) and leave it on when you put your anionic surfactant shampoo.  The cationic combines with the anionic and you get a nice conditioning effect.

But it your formula you might try substituting Cocotrimonium Chloride for Cetrimonium chloride.  The coco version may boost the foam a bit.

FWIW - I don’t think you’ll notice much difference whether you have 5% or 0% glycerin in the formula. It is water soluble and rinses away anyway so you’re not going to get any moisturizing or conditioning effect.

[OldPerry]

You can get there via the following link.

Learn to formulate cosmetics

For the best books see this list.

Cosmetic science books

[OldPerry]

The viscosity of a cream formula depends on what you or your customers want.

The range can be anywhere from 15,000 cps to 40,000 cps.  It really depends.

[OldPerry]

If you are serious about formulating it is well worth getting yourself a pH meter for more accurate measurements. 

They aren’t even that expensive and are well worth the investment. Here are some examples.

http://amzn.to/1EENu9z

[OldPerry]

Yes, if you are using those surfactants you can put “sulfate free” on the bottle.  (At least it’s ok in the US)

[OldPerry]

Ah yes the old post-shaving gel technology.  That involves putting a propellant in the formula.

Here is an example ingredient list.

Edge Shave Gel

Water, Palmitic Acid, Triethanolamine, Sunflower Seed Oil Glyceride, Isopentane, Sorbitol, Stearic Acid, Isobutane, PVP, Glycerin, PEG/PPG-17/6 Copolymer, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, PEG-90M, Phytantriol, Fragrance, Blue 1

Notice this formula has both Isopentane and Isobutane. When the propellant is incorporated into the gel it expands and forms the foam on the hand. I believe this also uses bag-in-the-can technology to force the gel out of the container.