Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Comparable formulation to this conditioner

  • Comparable formulation to this conditioner

    Posted by Scarlet on June 4, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Hi, all.  I have searched high and low for a comparable duplicate of Bumble & bumble’s leave in rinse out conditioner (which they discontinued).   It seems to be a fairly basic formula; however, I’m not having much luck.   It was ideal for providing moisture to dry, fine, curly hair without the use of oils or silicone.  Hair of this texture cannot handle heavy oils or silicone build up. 

    Water (Aqua),Cetyl Alcohol,Sambucus Nigra Flower Extract (Elder),Wheat
    Germ Glycerides,Panthenol (Vitamin B5),Cetearyl Alcohol,Cetrimonium
    Bromide,PEG 100 Stearate,Behentrimonium Methosulfate,Lactamide
    MEA,Propylene Glycol,Citric Acid,Tetrasodium
    EDTA,Methylparaben,Polymethoxy Bicyclic
    Oxazolidine,Propylparaben,Fragrance (Parfum)

    From their position in the ingredient list, it seems the Panthenol and Wheat Glycerides are the key ingredients. 

    Any advice on this would be appreciated.

    luiscuevasii replied 9 years ago 6 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • OldPerry

    Member
    June 4, 2015 at 6:10 pm
    Panthenol and Wheat Glycerides are their sales ingredients, not likely the ones having much noticeable effect.
    Here are the ingredients that matter.
    Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Bromide, PEG 100 Stearate, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Lactamide MEA, Fragrance (Parfum)
  • belassi

    Member
    June 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    LOI doesn’t look to me as if it is properly ordered.

  • Scarlet

    Member
    June 4, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Interesting.  Why is that? 

  • belassi

    Member
    June 4, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    (Guestimate)

    Water (Aqua), q/s
    Cetyl Alcohol, (maybe 4%)
    Sambucus Nigra Flower Extract (Elder), (marketing ingredient - maybe 2% max?)
    Wheat Germ Glycerides, (marketing ingredient - 2%?)
    Panthenol (Vitamin B5), - expensive! Usually not found at more than 0.5%
    Cetearyl Alcohol, - emulsifier for the cetyl, maybe 5%?
    Cetrimonium Bromide, - detangler, usually 2%
    PEG 100 Stearate, - someone else take a guess
    Behentrimonium Methosulfate, - detangler?
    Lactamide - acidifier, conditioning agent
    MEA, - refattener, foam
    Propylene Glycol, - solvent
    Citric Acid, -pH adjuster maybe 0.5%?
    Tetrasodium EDTA, - 0.2%?
    Methylparaben, - 0.2%?
    Polymethoxy Bicyclic Oxazolidine, ??
    Propylparaben, - 0.15%?
    Fragrance (Parfum) - 1%?
  • Bill_Toge

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    behentrimonium methosulphate is a mild conditioner and a cationic emulsifier (available from Croda, as the Incroquat BTMS series) 

    Lactamide MEA is a humectant
    polymethoxy bicyclic oxazolidine is an antimicrobial, presumably part of the preservative system 
  • OldPerry

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    The LOI could be in the proper order.  According to INCI labeling rules you need to list things in order of concentration for everything above 1% so…

    Water
    Cetyl Alcohol

    1% line


    Everything else in any order you want
    This label just suggests that everything is at 1% or less after Cetyl Alcohol.  This actually makes sense if the product is meant to be leave on or rinse off.
    Here’s my guess….
    Water (Aqua) - qs to 100% (about 90%)
    Cetyl Alcohol - 5%
    Sambucus Nigra Flower Extract (Elder) - 0.1%
    Wheat Germ Glycerides - 0.1%
    Panthenol (Vitamin B5) - 0.05%
    Cetearyl Alcohol, - 1%
    Cetrimonium Bromide, - 0.4%
    PEG 100 Stearate, - 0.2%
    Behentrimonium Methosulfate, - 0.5%
    Lactamide MEA - 0.5%
    Propylene Glycol, - 1%
    Citric Acid, -pH adjuster maybe 0.5% 
    Tetrasodium EDTA, - 0.2%
    Methylparaben, - 0.2%
    Polymethoxy Bicyclic Oxazolidine - 0.2%
    Propylparaben, - 0.15%
    Fragrance (Parfum) - 0.2%
  • Scarlet

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    Thank you all, I really appreciate the input!

  • Bobzchemist

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    Tell us how your batch comes out?

  • luiscuevasii

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 7:40 pm

    @belassi @perry, im trying to make a formula like the one that both of you mentioned, but i dont have “cetearly alcohol”, can i use stearic acid instead?, i dont have any emulsifier compatible with Centrimonium bromide or Polyquads available. 

  • belassi

    Member
    June 5, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    No, it’s not the same. The closest sub would be glycerol monostearate.

  • OldPerry

    Member
    June 9, 2015 at 12:43 am

    Cetearyl alcohol is a blend of Cetyl Alcohol and Stearyl Alcohol.  In some cases you might be able to use stearic acid as a replacement but it really depends on the formula.

  • luiscuevasii

    Member
    June 11, 2015 at 4:51 am

    @perry thanks, but can i make my own cetearyl alcohol?, i mean i have cetyl alcohol and stearyl alcohol available.

Log in to reply.