OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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That depends on what you mean by “good enough.” If you want a shampoo that performs like the best shampoos on the market, that formula will not work. But I’m sure it will perform fine enough for many people.
I’ve never known panthenol to have a noticeable effect in a formula so you can leave it out. Also, you’re using way more aloe vera than is needed and essential oils are potential allergens so the product may not be safe for some people.
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PV=nRT
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Menthol? Ouch!
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@carp0824 - If you want to find the root cause, do a knockout experiment.
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@David - not to worry. AI is not advanced enough yet to make that sophisticated of a piece of software.
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I agree with johnb, without synthetic detergents (which you’re already using) you will only be able to formulate poor performing shampoos. But if you consider Glucosides natural then you could use Decyl Glycoside or Lauryl Glucoside. In any case, stay away from soap based shampoos.
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Thanks for the question.
1. Yes, the two cheap masks are ok for dyed hair. They look like pretty much standard rinse-out conditioners.
2. It might be better to use a formula that contains Dimethicone which will stay in the hair better and protect it more. But this isn’t crucial.
3. The ingredients in that formula should already make hair feel good. Dimethicone would be a good choice too.
4. Any good rinse-out conditioner will work.
5. The stuff that your hairdresser sells is probably not better. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find a formula that performs better on hair than Pantene.
You definitely don’t need expensive products to treat your hair.
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Most big companies don’t want a brand unless they can get $100,000,000 in annual sales. So, I would guess $20 million in sales would make someone look at you.
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I’d reduce the oil levels and use Coconut Oil instead of the broccoli. And your level of panthenol is too high as it won’t have any noticeable benefit on hair. The hydrolyzed wheat may increase the tackiness which decreases the slip you are looking for so you might want to reduce that too.
Of course, I would recommend you use silicones because you really can’t beat them for slip. Choosing to avoid silicones is choosing to make a product that doesn’t work as well.
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@Stephaniebonbon - Great! Perhaps you could share your improvements with the group.
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@Stephaniebonbon - I use Excel spreadsheets which work on both Mac and PC
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String ’em up! This deceptive brand really needs to change its ways.
I know micro contamination happens but when you formulate without proper preservation you deserve every bad thing that happens to you.Don’t let fear marketing interfere with your ability to make safe products.
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We always called them “leave-in conditioners” at Alberto Culver when referring to hair products that were meant to be left in the hair & not rinsed out.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I agree with all that’s been said. You have to have a solid knowledge in many different fields to be an expert cosmetic chemist. You also need to be curious, skeptical, creative, etc.
But these traits could describe pretty much any scientist. What are some traits or skills specifically required to become an expert cosmetic chemist?
The thing that got me thinking about this is the notion of deliberate practice as described here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBCA_5e1PgSo what activities or skills could someone practice to become an expert cosmetic chemist?
Here are some that I thought of. What do you think?
1. Memorizing raw materials and what they do
2. Developing senses to evaluate formula performance
3. Creating formulas from a limited group of raw materials
4. Making batches
5. Coming up with new product ideasI remember when I was regularly in the lab I became really good at taking viscosity measurements, pH readings, and filling bottles. I’m not sure if those skills did much for my growth as a formulator though. -
The FDA certainly regulates cosmetics. In fact, the law is the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. There aren’t a lot of specific regulations but there is the overall law that it is illegal to sell unsafe products. If you are selling a water-based formula and not putting a preservative in it, that is an unsafe product.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll see if I can at least make this an automatic thing when someone registers. Maybe there can be a field added to someone’s profile which gives an indication of skill level and background. I’m thinking categories like
Veteran Chemist
Mid level experienced chemist
Beginner chemist
DIY formulator -
@chemicalmatt - well, you can make it dry as fast, you just need to use Propellant 152A which, although it is a volatile hydrocarbon, was exempted from the CARB rules. Tresemme hair spray does this.
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There is little evidence that drinking collagen has any effect. The one study published was done by scientists evaluating a product called Verisol.
The results were interesting but the study hasn’t been repeated. I’m not swayed by a single, unrepeated study. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Certainly, more study is worth doing but I’m not ready to jump on board and tell anyone to start drinking collagen to improve their skin.
If you look through the Verisol study, while the results are significant they report a 7.2% reduction in eye wrinkle volume and 20% reduction at 8 weeks. That may be statistically significant but does it matter? There is a difference between mathematical significance and real world significance.
If you read the study, there are questions about the results of the placebo group in which their wrinkles increased and then decreased during the regression phase. This isn’t adequately explained. It demonstrates more study is needed before reaching any conclusion.
Relevant: http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/study-shows-anti-wrinkle-collagen-pill-really-works
Actual study: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qo443j64oai3ph/collagen-ingestion-study.pdf?dl=0
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If it had a long term effect it wouldn’t be a legal cosmetic.
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Great question.
This gets to be a bit of a gray area. Technically, no chemical reaction is ever complete. There are always some residual, unreacted, starting materials.
This is why people complain about the lack of listing 1,4 Dioxane when a product uses ethoxylated surfactants. There will always be some small level of unreacted 1,4 dioxane. Manufacturers will say that the level is so small it should be ignored. The INCI support that position.
My assumption is that the saponification reaction isn’t complete enough so it would be ok to list the oil, base and resulting soap. But it also seems reasonable to only include the soap in your ingredient list. What doesn’t seem reasonable is if you include only the starting materials and not the name of the soap.
There is no specific guideline that tells you at what concentration a residual ingredient has to be for it to be included on your list of ingredients.
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@johnb - I suspect that there will be a number of acronyms that have multiple meanings. I suggest that we just add any that we know of and not worry if there is duplicates. Although for the life of me I can’t remember why I included SARA in the first place. I’ve never used it as an acronym.
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On asterisks - Alternative suggestion, don’t use them. Don’t use your ingredient list for marketing your product. That is not the purpose. Do your marketing in the label copy not in your ingredient list. The fact that it is commonly done doesn’t mean it should be done. It is against the rules and undermines the credibility of the entire industry.
On saponification - The point of the ingredient list is to list the chemicals that are in the final product. If you put two ingredients in your formula and they chemically react to form a new ingredient, you should list the resulting ingredient. If the reaction isn’t complete you should list the two starting ingredients too. If the reaction is complete, then you can simply list the final ingredient. So, for a saponification reaction you would list the oil, the base and the resulting soap.
On Aloe - Aloe powder dissolved in water is still going to be mostly water. So water should be the first ingredient. If you could simply take a powder, dissolve it in water, then list whatever powder ingredient you want first (call it a juice) then water would never have to be the first ingredient. Does it make sense to take 1 gram of aloe powder, dissolve it in 99 grams of water and say it’s Aloe Juice? No, it’s water. Companies who do this are either ignorant of the rules or being purposefully misleading.
“3. Solvents and Diluents - Solvents and diluents in raw materials, such as surfactants, polymers, and resins, are not always identified as part of the INCI name (see F. Nomenclature Conventions, Rule 32). However, diluents and/or solvents must be listed on the finished product package label in their proper order of predominance with respect to all other ingredients in the formulation. Information on the concentration of solvents and/or diluents contained in such raw materials must be obtained by the marketing company from the supplier.
4. Extracts - The INCI names for extracts represent the “material extracted” (see F. Nomenclature Conventions, Rule 32). Many extracts are supplied with the extracting solvent and/or other diluents. The solvents and/or diluents in extracts must be listed in their proper order of predominance, along with all other ingredients in the formulation, on the package label. The solvents and/or diluents in a specific extract may be found under its trade name in Section 6, Technical/Trade Names/ INCI Names. Information on the concentration of solvents and/or diluents in a specific extract must be obtained by the marketing company from the supplier. “Relevant INCI rules: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/res/80437449-ee90-4f7b-ab93-3eacbe7480de
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Maybe you once said you were hungry in a different discussion.
I think you should ask an FDA inspector and not rely on what the CMO says. The FDA says “The expiration date, when applicable (date after which you should not use the product)”
Relevant.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=211.137 -
I’m not sure what you mean by the question.
These claims don’t say what the product is supposed to do.
If the RNF-1 Peptide actually caused skin cells to regenerate or repaired some damage that would make it a drug and illegal to sell as a cosmetic. But the way the claim is written, they just say it contains the ingredient not that it actually does anything.
If allantoin actually caused cell healing and cell proliferation then that would be an illegal drug. The word “promotes” is a vague term that has no legal definition so it’s just a marketing term.
The bottom line is if there was a product that contained these ingredients and claimed that it did the things it is implying that it does, it would be an illegal drug. So the product either doesn’t work or it’s illegal.