OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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That’s usually an electrolyte problem so leaving out the EDTA would be a first good experiment
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Time for a knockout experiment.
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It would help if you list all the ingredients in your formula but what @Fekher says is probably right.
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Fearmongers gonna fearmonger.
http://www.safecosmetics.org/get-the-facts/chemicals-of-concern/talc/ -
@Doreen - true, but if the name is too complicated to pronounce that makes it harder to vilify. You’ll notice all the most vilified ingredients have short, snappy nicknames. parabens, silicones, mineral oil, petrolatum, talc, phthalates, etc.
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The problem is called “blooming”. That means some of your oils are not compatible or are not used in the right ratios. Time to experiment with different ratios of the ingredients. Doing a knockout experiment could help you identify the problem too.
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You have approximately 4% salt in the system. This is way too much. Try doing a salt curve analysis.
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@ngarayeva001 - marketing hype. The science is not nearly advanced enough in that area to create products.
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If they seemed to work, I’m not sure what you want to know.
How long do you want the product to be stable? Have you done stability testing? The longer you want the product to last, the more likely you’ll need a better thought out emulsion system. You’ll also probably need a preservative system if the product is going to be sitting around for an extended period of time mixed with water (weeks, months).
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@Gunther - There are no specific requirements after you join the SCC. Ideally, you will attend meetings and network with other cosmetic chemists, but if you wanted to just pay your dues every year and read the Journal of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists, you can do that too.
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@Fekher - There is no simple answer to that because the level you use depends on the viscosity you want, the quality of the surfactants you’re using, the other ingredients, etc. Anywhere from 0.4% - 1.5% might work for your system.
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That’s why using a formaldehyde donor like DMDM Hydantoin, Imidazolidinyl Urea, or Diazolidinyl Urea can work.
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@Gunther - To join as a general member…”General Membership is available to persons engaged in scientific or technical work in the cosmetics and toiletries industry or in related governmental or academic areas, who have earned a Bachelor’s Degree in the chemical, physical, medical, pharmaceutical, biological or related sciences and technology. “
But you can also join as an Affiliate member - “Available to persons interested in the objectives of the Society, but not qualified for General Membership. National Affiliates are entitled to all membership privileges, except that they may not vote or hold elected office within the Society or its Chapters. (Please note: after seven consecutive years in good standing, all National Affiliates are automatically upgraded to General Members.)”
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To figure out how things work you first have to figure out what it is supposed to be doing. Let’s look at the claims you listed…
1. “novel active ingredient” - this can be said of pretty much anything.
2. “innovative moss cell technology” - so what?
3. “demonstrated a positive influence on cell nucleus health genes ” - I have no idea what this even means. What are ‘health genes’? What is a ‘positive influence’? This is just meaningless claims.
4. “supported skin adaptation to climatic changes” - what does it mean to ‘support skin adaptation’? What is a quantifiable measurement that could be made to verify this claim? This means nothing if you can’t measure it.
5. “more refined skin tone” - How do you measure a ‘refined’ skin tone?
6. “more resilient skin” - how do you define and measure ‘resilient’ skin? The before and after pictures they show in the article are not notable.The marketing of this material is typical sciencesploitation where they try to dazzle you with biochemistry explanations and make the benefits vague enough that it would apply to pretty much anything.
I don’t know how phytol works or even if it works. But I know that in their paper they didn’t compare how the ingredient performs against the best technology available, so I’d say this is little more than a claims ingredient that would support a product story featuring moss.
I really wish raw material suppliers did a better job with their marketing.
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@J4ckbird - Similar performance to what?
The reality is that conditioners aren’t natural so there is nothing in nature that will give similar performance. If you’re not going to use the best available ingredients (synthetic conditioning agents) you can’t expect the same performance.
The best you can try is Coconut oil or Palm oil or something that these non-natural conditioning agents are made from. It won’t work as well but it might work well enough.
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It would help if you could put the entire list of ingredients in your serum.
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If we take out preservatives, thickeners, film formers and fluff ingredients, this would be my guess.
AQUA / WATER / EAU
PROPANEDIOLGLYCERINBIS-PEG-18 METHYL ETHER DIMETHYL SILANE,DIMETHICONEPEG-20LIMNANTHES ALBA SEED OIL / MEADOWFOAM SEED OIL -
The celluosics work pretty well. HPMC and HEC. And Carbomer EDT 2020 is helpful too.
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@Chemist77 - the non SE grade also has emulsifying ability. It has an HLB of 3.8. The SE version has an HLB of 5.8
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@ngarayeva001 - GMS is probably Glyceryl Monostearate which would qualify as an emulsifier. And neutralizing stearic acid will also create an emulsion.
I agree though, I have no idea what “croda” is and the type of carbomer matters too.
I don’t know why it would become thin at such a low temperature (38C). But I’d guess probably not enough fatty alcohols in the system.
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The idea of this forum is that you ask a question with enough detail that everyone knowledgable can answer. If you want a discussion about your question, you need to provide a list of ingredients at the very least. Better would be to include the entire formula.
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What formula have you tried?
You can get free formulas here.
https://chemistscorner.com/where-to-find-free-cosmetic-formulas/ -
@Gunther - yes, the case for parabens representing a danger in cosmetics is extremely weak. It makes a good scare story for small brands as a reason for consumers not to buy mainstream products. (Fear marketing). It also provides salacious stories for reporters who want to get more clicks. Fear stories are inherently more attention getting than stories about ingredients being perfectly fine to use.
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The problem with buying a licorice extract is you don’t have any way of doing QA/QC on the ingredient so you can’t really know what you’re buying. If there is some specific property you want to get from the licorice extract, you’ll be better off identifying specifically what chemical is responsible for the effect then buying that chemical. Extracts can be composed of pretty much anything & you’d have know way of knowing what you’re getting.