[Pattsi]

PEG 40 hydrogenated castor oil is thick and cloudy. if high % i don’t think your oil will come out clear.
if it meant it be emulsifier i (personally) think Sorbeth-30 Tetraoleate is easier to work with.
if it meant to thicken your oil there are these options Trihydroxystearin, Ethylene/Propylene/Styrene Copolymer, Butylene/Ethylene/Styrene copolymer but will require high heat
or simply add a heavier oil/ester like PPG-3 Myristyl Ether, Octyldodecyl Stearoyl Stearate, or olive and play with % until you like it.

Happy formulating   

[Pattsi]

from a marketer point of view - How premium are you aiming for? if i’m not wrong you are going Natural?  Aren’t there tons of natural products with high/low prices in the market right now?

from your LOI your production cost is fairly high then packaging vise, advertising vise, distribution vise and other stuffs, your final product will be around?

Caprylic Capric Triglycerides

7.00%

will be shown as second ingredient  some might not like it because they think it has high comedogenic rate.

why not choose a fanciest oil and place it at second and cut down CCT  

Cucumber Glycerol Extract

Glycerin, Aqua, Cucumis Sativus Fruit Extract

2.00%

why not use Glycerin and cucumber extract seperately

what is the product selling point?
what Matrixyl 3000 1% supposed to do in body lotion.  on the lebel will the customers know what Matrixyl 3000 is. why not go with easy name like glycogen, collagen, vitamin c.

or Hemp Seed Oil is the selling point but how can u differentiate yourself from other in the market.

i’m sorry if this come off as rude or offend you.
and i didn’t mean to discourage you.
what i want to say is launching a product you have to plan ahead of time.  

1% maltodextrin can help trap the smell  a bit

[Pattsi]

maybe Polyglyceryl-2 Dipolyhydroxystearate is used as a blender for Dicaprylyl Carbonate, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Octyldodecanol and other oil then trap in water gel.

is it Emma Hardie Midas Touch Revitalising Cream?
i’m curious too how they made it.

[Pattsi]

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/6277/oil-and-emulsifier-compatibility-question

[Pattsi]

May i ask is it turbid like this from the start?
Or is it start clear yellow and turned out this color in stability test?

or your oil-based cleanser have water or some extract  that contain  water in it even a little amount then  they  will emulsify and turn out turbid. if you intent to add extract/water in oil-based cleanser you will have to do refractory ratio which is quit hard.

ideally cleansing oil won’t need a preservative but i would recommend a bit of Phenoxyethanol.

[Pattsi]

usually  acne prone skin is oily type  so they  can tolerate  acne treatment  quit well  cos most would dry their skins out.
but you are on the dry side which is make it harder to treat.

ETcellphone said:
pimples, blocked pores and irritation.

the problem might be your over all routine or daily life how you treat your skin, how u eat , how u sleep etc.

might start with how u clean ur skin.
cleansing oil or balm might be a good chioce or double clean system might do better. you have to try what’s work for you.

Tretinoin 0.025% cream might be a good start if it drys your skin then add aloe or licorice gel.

IMHO i would recommend seeking a consult from dermatologist for some period of time and when u find what is actually your problem then u can design ur own routine for urself.

 if you don’t know what cause your skin to break out it will be a bit hard to start formulate your own serum.

as for TEWL ingredient petrolatum is a gold standard, you can start on low like 0.1- 0.3 if it is still too much i say you can look into light weight baby cream like Ezerra or baby sebamed.

 Happy formulating

[Pattsi]

Pharma said:

Good penetration: KY gel :smiley:

Huh?!!  now i know what ingredient my product is missing   

[Pattsi]

if it’s for personal use u can do whatever u want, if it’s gone bad u can just toss it out. but if u sell it and can manage to get 2-3 years shelf life with out preservatives then congratulation and could you please share ur how to.

[Pattsi]

I don’t see benefit of green tea in cosmetics other than for claim don’t know about shampoo or hair conditioner. i played with (not professional level i just play with ingredients before i go to formulators) pullulan can become sticky over time don’t know why.

[Pattsi]

940 is a bit hard to hydrate with out a proper equipment.
if it for personal use i made it like this.

1.add 940 through a sifter little by little to water(room temp) while stirring and let it hydrate over night to form a thick water gel.

2.the next day slowly add IPA to the water gel while stirring. if u stir by hand i recommend divide IPA to 5 parts and add 1 part at a time and stir about 5 min then add in more.

3.to neutralize the gel add TEA and stir. 

4.add Glycerin and stir.

have fun stirring and stay safe.

[Pattsi]

thank you @EVchem

it’s a new batch made in the end of February and kept in warehouse about 4 months.

EVchem said:

If you are using 0.05% of the vitamin C derivative I wouldn’t initially suspect that. Licorice extract can brown over time. 

To make sure I understand, how old is the formula  in question? Do you mean products that have sat in a warehouse for 2 years are browning? Or that a new batch put in this summer has browned?  Storing at 40 C or even just inconsistent temperatures you can expect discoloration, possibly separation. 

I haven’t used that specific amitose, I used a different kind in the series

I will make note about Licorice extract too. thank you
I will sort a temp-controlled warehouse. 

Thank you very much 
 

[Pattsi]

Thank you @Graillotion for your explanation. i like that you care for every detail of your products. i wish you the best. i love seeing a good product put on sell and it grows beautifully in the market.

[Pattsi]

thank you @Pharma TBH i had a turmeric + niacinamide lotion prototype project  and  did an in-housed small test group. it was a bad bad idea but it was fun the smell the color were all over the place. now i use Tetrahydrodiferuloylmethane only for claim tho .

[Pattsi]

Perry and lushderma ‘ answers covered all .

but this problem happen with all sorts of merchandise.

as for an only $10,000 in start up i’d say it is possible but u can’t expect a benefit of 1M in a short period right? , some brand takes long time to catch on in the market , some brand blooms quick. it’s a matter of time and place etc.

in US the market is completely flooded indeed. but u may consider other market that ‘s still growing outside US say China ,India , Russia there might be some room for u if u understand their cultures and your product can solve their beauty problems. there r  people who have $$$ everywhere if u can find them.

@Eclectic

Eclectic said:

 Unless you have something ground breaking to offer like Olaplex

@Perry

may i have your opinion on olapex?

i am not a chemist but to my little to nothing knowledge in chemistry , olaplex doesn’t seem to do anything or little they did to bleached damaged hair. their no.1 and no.2 that sell to professionals only the effect only last a day or 2 in my observation. and their no.345.. are just a set of conditioners and treatment products.

or i missed something and olaplex have that magic (including otherplex too)

thank you

[Pattsi]

Hi @Graillotion may i ask is your lotion going to be a natural mosquito repellent lotion alone or natural mosquito repellent plus beauty lotion  in the same bottle?

for discoloration i think a target group research conduct if they mild the not white (but natural) lotion or not. Some might not care about the color if the repellent performance is outstanding.

turmeric in lotion the yellow color will stick to your skin and clothes, and hard to wash off. this will give your lotion a bad review by the customers like this lotion is super great but it ruined my white shirt 7/10. sorry i can’t offer any help about your formulation in a chemistry way :'(.

[Pattsi]

@Pharma thank you for the formulations, i really interest in cetylpalmitate.

@ngarayeva001 thank you. i didn’t mean to say that their products are bad formulations and i am grad that they use parabens too. things i don’t like r their marketings that present their products as super natural like squeeze a juice fresh from the fruit in to the pot. it’s not wrong it’s just annoyed me .

@Graillotion thank you. i really don’t know the detail of Limnanthes Alba (Meadowfoam) Seed Oil. the only thing i know is it’s cheaper than Jojoba oil.

@czkld thank you. totally agreed with you. they might left some word off when they promo. with this topic they sell cold cream as balm cleanser. i know that cold cream was used as makeup remover/cleaner. but  in 2019-2020 a balm cleanser without an emulsifier it ticks me.

@katerinak thank you. it looks more like a cooking show promo vid .

pls pradon my English thank you

[Pattsi]

a bit off topic. i personally don’t like Lush. Their LOIs r really strange (to me)  some times they r like DIYish products.
and now they say paraben is Safe Synthetics.

back to the topic. i’d like to know the secret of  traditional cold cream too :blush: .

this is fresh’s ingredient. even stranger (to me) than Lush

Limnanthes Alba (Meadowfoam) Seed Oil

Aqua (Water)

Cera Alba (Beeswax)

Pentylene Glycol

Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil

Citrus Limon (Lemon) Peel Oil

Osmanthus Fragrans Flower Extract

Rosa Damascena Flower Water

Anthemis Nobilis Flower Oil

Ormenis Multicaulis Flower Wax

Tocopherol

Sodium Carbonate

Limonene

Citronellol

Geraniol

Citral

Isn’t Meawdowfoam oil go rancid fast? maybe i am confused it with other oil

[Pattsi]

(2)  If your product does not contain an OTC active, it is a cosmetic product.  You can sell cosmetic products to either or both the Professional market and the Consumer market.  You do not have to register cosmetic products with the FDA, it is an optional registration.

If the product is a cosmetic product that sell through the Professionals but the end users are the general public. It is likely a cosmetic product with more $$ price tag to it.  That’s one way to spin a product.

[Pattsi]

thank you @Pharma i learn a lot from you and other members.
i work as a marketer my knowledge in chemistry is very basic.
i hope i could give something i know back to the community even tho it wont be much because every ones might have their own marketer already.   

sorry for my previous post.
they use Carica Papaya Fruit Extract in soap bar so the enzyme itself must be very low.

Pharma said:

Cosmetics, where dreams make people rich…

   :# :# :# : cant agree/disagree on this because im on the sell side :# :# :#

[Pattsi]

Aqua (and) Papain (and) Sodium Carbomer (and) Sodium Chloride (and) Carbomer. Linked-Papain™ C-MPB by BASF 

my guess is they just provide a longer shelf life like from very very short to short.

Papain is mostly used in soap bar (South East Asia) pH 8-9ish so the enzyme itself wont have much effect(my guess) but said soap bar is very strong using it every day will make your skin dry and peel. but the customers are willing to use and then use moisturizer after.

[Pattsi]

letsalcido said:

@Perry I saw this coming haha I was gonna mention the risk of allergic reactions (a risk that is present at varying degrees with a lot of natural products), but focusing on function only, is it an ingredient that is visibly effective?

I think for small boutique brands, this may be ok as it’s not a product for the mass market. Labeling, and patch testing would be enough, perhaps. For large brands, I understand the need to cover as much market as possible with the least amount of risk.

We use tree nut oils in skin care, knowing that some people have deadly reactions to these. The difference is, perhaps, that people have already identified these allergies and intentionally avoid those ingredients, thus reducing risk? Perhaps also the amount of proteins/allergens that could be in the oil is too small to have a more visible effect on the masses and not just people with severe allergies?

@letsalcido is it an ingredient that is visibly effective?  Yes, at1% serum it peeled my forearm skin off in 2-3 days. there also in Cross-linked form (BASF’s i think) i got a sample from retailer.  
i saw lancôme use it with pineapple but on low i guess.

Ingredients:

• Aqua / Water
• Butylene Glycol
• Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate
• Polyethylene
• Hydrogenated Palm Kernel Glycerides
• Triethanolamine
• Carbomer
• Sodium Stearoyl Glutamate
• Ci 42090 / Blue 1 Lake
• Ci 42090 / Blue 1
• Ci 17200 / Red 33
• Ananas Sativus Fruit Extract / Pineapple Fruit Extract
• Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate
• Sodium Lauroyl Oat Amino Acids
• Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides
• Sodium Benzoate
• Phenoxyethanol
• Peg-32
• Peg-32 Stearate
• Peg-6 Stearate
• Salicylic Acid
• Limonene
• Pentaerythrityl Tetraethylhexanoate
• Xanthan Gum
• Linalool
• Benzyl Salicylate
• Benzyl Alcohol
• Propanediol
• Chondrus Crispus (Carrageenan)
• Papain
• Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer
• Methylparaben
• Tetrasodium Edta
• Potassium Sorbate
• Hexyl Cinnamal
• Parfum / Fragrance

sorry for my English and  this is my 1st post  i am learning how to do @name
And can i write the name of the brand?  or i have to do it like Lancxxe this.

[Pattsi]

Thank you for the approval.
Hi everyone. 
My name is Patt. I’m a marketer background in medical degree with basic knowledge of cosmetic chemistry. I’m so happy i found this forum. There’s so much more i have to learn.
Please excuse my writing I haven’t been writing in English properly more than 10+ years.
Thank you for your supports.