[Pattsi]

60 litres? Isn’t it too much for personal use? Or if it’s meant for personal use, then please don’t do it.

[Pattsi]

Good question.
Maybe Microscope can help with that.
What if it’s a combination of both.

[Pattsi]

Guys/Girls please calm down.

Please don’t out cast anyone just yet.

Haloul said:

I always avoid losing my energy in the angry discussion about natural versus synthetic. At the end it is a personal choice! If you feel you want to go all natural, go for it! Certainly lots of natural raw material have real benefits despite what others may claim!, if you want to go for a mixture it is also all your decision. 

I agree it is your personal choice and decision. But don’t forget when you put a product out, it is under FDA regulation so make sure your product is safe and not adulterated or misbranded.

One thing that is a problem to me, “all natural” people always claim natural is safer and better than synthetic but they didn’t submit  methodological evidence, so how did they come to that conclusion?
On the other hand, synthetic have been proven what’s safe and what’s not.

ngarayeva001 said:

 spread chemophobia and utter nonsense. 

So, I would like to add another common beginner’s mistake: not checking sources. 

I totally agree, so natural people please don’t spread chemophobia and utter nonsense.

Haloul said:

@ngarayeva001 Im not preaching for anyone and I’m not associated with FB in any way! The professional approach you mentioned should not allow as well to attack a reputable school, you like it or not!

From what I saw on the website, I (non-professional) have better equipment than theirs in my non-lab office.

[Pattsi]

Is it a leave-in conditioner?

[Pattsi]

As @jemolian said you can adjust % of your ingredients to get the skin feel you want.
Menthol can be use as cooling agent.
Borage and menthol - I don’t know where is this leading to.

[Pattsi]

stearic acid, beeswax - give quite a dull finish.
Body butter can mean any thing from anhydrous, rich heavy creamy/buttery emulsion … etc.
I’m curious how they get that colour, is it not fully emulsified?
So I’m guessing here, maybe try up your butter and Dimethicone, give it a little touch of sepgel.
INCI of your benchmark would make it easier.

[Pattsi]

Maybe you can try reducing you oil phase and use thickener. It might help with “seem like faster absorption” feeling.
what is U20?

[Pattsi]

I haven’t tried it but at pH 9 - HEC, HPMC, Methyl Ethyl Hydroxyethyl Cellulose, Dehydroxanthan Gum should be able to gel.

[Pattsi]

I don’t know but your benchmark looks like a mayo and ready to break.

[Pattsi]

No worry @emma1985
I mean for example
if I have high liquid oil and natural butter about 18-20 with only 3 cetearyl alcohol and thicken with 0.5-1 thickener, they tend to pill more than 16-18 liquid oil and natural butter with 5 cetearyl and 0.5-1 thickener.
It was the problem with Gums + 940, sepgel, high Mol Hya but never have pilling issue with aristoflex and sodium carbomer.

Dimethicone 350 0.65%
Polymethylsilsesquioxane 1%

Maybe this form a film? I don’t know I only use Dimethicone 5 and 100.

[Pattsi]

 Is it too much to solubilize in Isododecane? 

[Pattsi]

Oh my, hope you get a refund.

[Pattsi]

I’ve seen the Institute of Personal Care’s video on youtube, it’s indeed very thorough but seems quite basic to me.
Isn’t Perry have a natural cosmetics class here?

Walkerette said:

is it really  worth investing thousands of dollars to make your own brand from it ? 

Starting a brand, it is not 100% necessary to know how the products are manufactured, you can work with a reputable cosmetics chemist and come up with a reasonable natural product. Or if it will be home made product,  a reputable cosmetics chemist can also help you with that.
It is for you to decide if it is worth the money or not.
I paid for a personal class (basic level), at least I know what can be done and what can’t be done, so I won’t waste money and time asking the formulator to do the impossible tasks.

[Pattsi]

As @Bill_Toge and @Microformulation mentioned ratio of oil to water is irrelevant.
Somehow you can estimate water content in o/w emulsion, but you will see various oil to water ratios in w/o.
It is depended on how the formulator approach the formulation. I believe this is one of the reasons why w/o cost more than o/w per formulation. I myself as a non-professional can’t simply do a knock off foundation formulae with out a guide sheet from suppliers.

[Pattsi]

Have you checked your c12-15 Alkyl Benzoate compatibility with cyclomethicone/dimethicone?
How much c12-15 Alkyl Benzoate are you using? Is it too much to solubilize in Isododecane? 

[Pattsi]

ngarayeva001 said:

It might be unpopular opinion but I would like to question the very idea of clay masks. I know many people like them, but the only thing clay does is absorbs excess oils. Isn’t it easier just to use a paper napkin or wash the face? Majority of masks are useless. The rare exception might be acid peels in mask format.

They offer a semi-professional-ish beauty salon/spa experience at home.
As you mentioned they did do little - excess oil absorption, mild physical exfoliation, etc. But that instant “wow” feeling/experience makes the sale pretty easy.

abierose said:

UPDATE: Well, I modified the recipe and removed the strawberry “essential oil” as well as the licorice root extract and btms-50. I kept the rose hydrosol because I have used it in other formulations without any allergic reaction. I did add green tea extract in place of the licorice root…I guess mostly for appeal and to use up the sample that I had :smiley: Anyway, no allergic reaction at all!! However I also didn’t notice any particular benefit either…does anyone have a suggestion on what I could add that might add a noticeable benefit..?

@ngarayeva001 I hear what you’re saying…I think masks appeal to a certain demographic and they usually offer some instant noticeable (and short lived) benefit. I know my 19 year old stepdaughter LOVES them! :smiley:

You could add 24k gold or colour it gold. Gold mask almost always have a very noticeable benefit on your IG/Facebook photos. 

[Pattsi]

This is not an international price but this is what I have.
Eucalyptus Globulus oil (form China)  48 - 50 USD. /kg.
Eucalyptus Citriodora oil 120 - 125 USD. /kg.
Eucalyptus Citriodora oil (Deodorized and Purified) 177 - 180 USD. /kg.
Good luck.

[Pattsi]

If it is for DIYing, you can use unrefined one if you like. The colour and Nutty smell is very strong. And use good preservative system.
Buy a little sample and see if you like it or not.
If you are looking for idea to start a commercial brand, stick with refined one, there’s also extra refined one which is nice and creamy.
If you are looking for idea to start a Green Natural brand, good luck.

[Pattsi]

I had pilling issue when I used too high high spread oil with too low fatty acid, the thickener pilled after excessive rub.
I use aristoflex and sodium carbomer with silicone quite often, never have pilling issue.

[Pattsi]

type “ferulic acid” in search function box, there’re many discussions about it.

[Pattsi]

It’s not 100% necessary.
Do you encounter any problem with only one emulsifier or not?

[Pattsi]

Have you checked ferulic acid solubility?

[Pattsi]

I see, USA - your healthcare system is a nightmare.
If you choose to do so then I would suggest in order
1. 10% - 20% Urea cream.
2. 10% (w/w) Lactic acid cream.
3. Salicylic acid cream or solution.
**Salicylic acid is harsh - only seen 1 study suggesting Salicylic cream has better tolerance than AHA cream in Psoriasis management.

[Pattsi]

Sorry I didn’t mean that placebo effect in pain killer is not real, big pharmaceutical companies invest huge money in studies before they put their drugs out for approval.
I meant in cosmetics/supplementary diet when some people put a new strange extract in their product and make a semi-drug or drug claim, then do a hard marketing to convince their customers that it works. It makes me sad esply in cancer an CBD cycle.

Graillotion said:

Has CBD isolate been known to break emulsions?

I have no experience with CBD yet, I still have no access to reputable supplier other than uni lab which the price is still a bit too high.

[Pattsi]

Couple of questions.
1. Why do you have to formulate the ointment yourself, is 12% Lactic acid cream or 20% urea cream not available in the hospital?
2. Have you consult your doctor about using this ointment, is your condition not improved with normal Vaseline, should you jump start to keratolytic dressing? Or is your doctor planning on keratolytic with topical corticosteroids? 
3. Are you confident in your formulating skill? Should you better have a pharmacist prepare the formulae?