[PassionFruit95]

@Abdullah it’s the actual surfactant. I’m only adding 0.2% of salt.

@Bill_Toge Is that mean that if less SLES need lesser glycol stearate to show the pearlizing effect?

[PassionFruit95]

@Abdullah & @evchem2 thanks for the advice. I’m just using whatever that have in my inventory. Will give a try on glycol stearate. I want to thicken the cleanser a little bit more so I try to add some salt into it, but it turned out become watery. I’m adding salt because it’s cheaper as I have budget concern too. As I was benchmarking sample, I should follow the thickness of the sample.

@ketchito I’ve tried 1% and 2% glycol distearate before this, but the pearlizing effect is not that obvious so I increased it to 3.5%. I’ve also tried to increase my SLES to 6% and Betaine to 4%, but the result is the same too. Maybe I should add more surfactants though. 

[PassionFruit95]

@Abdullah Still I’ve tried this method before, still getting some tiny fish eyes but not that much.

[PassionFruit95]

@ketchito  I’m using 0.45% of carbopol ultrez 20 (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer). I’m using an overhead stirrer at 600rpm when mixing PQ-10 into my surfactant blend and left to stir for at least half an hour. 

Are there any possible mistakes during my steps?
First, I disperse carbopol ultrez 20 into the water and then follow with the surfactants. Then I premix PQ-10 with another 10% of water, stir until it forms a clear gel. Next, I added the premix into the surfactant blend and stir the bulk for at least 15 minutes.

[PassionFruit95]

@ketchito Thanks for the explanation, understand better now.  

[PassionFruit95]

@ketchito, thanks for the advice. I’ll try it out later to see how it work. As you previously stated that if the separation layer on top of the product is thick, it means instability with my lamellar system. Could you please explain a little bit more? Or the way to solve this problem? Really appreciate your help on this.

[PassionFruit95]

Another doubt, do I still need to add in solubilizer when I dissolve menthyl lactate with PG? What’s the ratio for PG and menthyl lactate?

[PassionFruit95]

@ketchito I didn’t neutralize my Carbopol as the final pH of my shampoo fell around 6 to 6.50. For now, the viscosity of the shampoo is a little bit too thick for me because it’s difficult to lather at the beginning. The texture of the shampoo seems too thick and clumping together. I need more water to make it lather. I didn’t add any sodium chloride or inorganic salt too. Maybe I can redo the shampoo by neutralizing the Carbopol with some TEOA or adding in some sodium chloride to see how it works.

[PassionFruit95]

@Abdullah Hi, I’m formulating for selling the product. Thanks for the advice. Btw, how do you mean by adding the ingredients one by one? The formulation looked stable during RT, only separated at 45C after 2-3 weeks.

[PassionFruit95]

@Perry The formula that doesn’t separate has Cutina AGS, the percentage of menthol is lower, and also the ratio of surfactants is slightly different.
Below is the formulation percentage FYR just in case.

Carbopol ultrez 20                                             0.45%
SLES                                                                 12.00%
Decyl Glucoside                                                 3.00%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine                                    5.50%  
Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate                          2.50%
Palm Kernelamide DEA                                       3.50%
Polyquaternium-10                                            0.40%
Xiameter MEM-1784 Emulsion
(Dimethiconol, TEA-dodecylbenzenesulfonate)   5.50%
Menthol                                                              0.25%
C12-15 Pareth-12                                              0.70%
PPG-20 Methyl Glucose Ether                              0.30%
PEG-12 Dimethicone                                           2.50%
DMDM Hydantoin                                                0.70%
Fragrance                                                            1.20% 
Glycerin                                                               4.50%
Styrene/Acrylates Copolymer                               0.20%
                                     
Could it be the high percentage of menthol and menthyl lactate causing the separation also? 
 

[PassionFruit95]

@ariepfadli Is there any other way besides PG or alcohol? I’m trying to find out the suitable surfactants to dissolve it. Btw, thanks for answering.

[PassionFruit95]

@Perry But my other formulation using 5.50% of silicone is ok and has no separation. My hair is still frizzy when using a low dosage of silicone. Will increase the percentage of surfactants can prevent the separation? Or is there any method to increase the conditioning effect without using a high dosage of silicone?

[PassionFruit95]

@ketchito  I don’t feel any cooling effect when the dosage of menthol and menthyl lactate is low. Thus, I increase the menthol dosage until I get the desired coolness. My viscosity is 38,960 cPs using Brookfield RV2/1rpm. But there’s a strange thing, I’ve tried to add in 1.50% of Cutina AGS in the same formulation but there’s no separation. The viscosity is 18,640 cps using the same speed and spindle. 

[PassionFruit95]

Hi Matt, as I mentioned I’m still a rookie in cosmetics. ???? I’m adding in the galactomyces ferment filtrate cz it helps brightening dull skin and enhancing moisture barrier. Btw appreciated your kind advice! and one more question, when I increased the total water content, the viscosity increase and the sensory become ‘heavier’. Is there any way to avoid this problem as I prefer lower viscosity serum.

p/s: Will definitely go in peace after successfully formulating a stable formulation ????