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Problem with dispersing Polyquta 3000KC (Polyquaternium-10) in shampoo
Does anyone have any ideas on why I’m getting these tiny fish eyes in my shampoo right after I added Polyquaternium-10 into the surfactant blend? I’ve premixed 0.4% of polyquaternium-10 with 3.2% of IMEX CDE (Palm Kernelamide DEA) before adding it into the surfactant. I’ve tried a few ways to premix the polyquaternium-10, such as with water only or with glycerin, but it is still the same. The fish eyes wouldn’t disappear even though I left the bulk overnight. The surfactants I’m using are SLES, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate, and Decyl Glucoside.
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9 Replies
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Add PQ10 to water before adding surfactants.
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@PassionFruit95 Are you using also an anionic polymer (like some carbomer)? Also, when you add PQ-10, you need to mix it at high speed and for enough time for complete hydration (not less than 10 min, depending on your type of mixer).
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@ketchito I’m using 0.45% of carbopol ultrez 20 (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer). I’m using an overhead stirrer at 600rpm when mixing PQ-10 into my surfactant blend and left to stir for at least half an hour.
Are there any possible mistakes during my steps?
First, I disperse carbopol ultrez 20 into the water and then follow with the surfactants. Then I premix PQ-10 with another 10% of water, stir until it forms a clear gel. Next, I added the premix into the surfactant blend and stir the bulk for at least 15 minutes. -
@Abdullah Still I’ve tried this method before, still getting some tiny fish eyes but not that much.
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I have done it too and it worked. If you add it to high surfactant product like sles or CAPB it doesn’t blend, but in pure water it should.
Do this.
Just add PQ10 to water, mix and see if it is completely solubilized. If yes the add other ingredients. If no then report here to talk about it.
And don’t forget to take picture so we can see why it is not working
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@PassionFruit95 Fish eyes (the hard ones) are usually caused by a reaction between a cationic polymer and carbomer. Either give more time to Carbopol to disperse (don’t add the neutralizer here, but rather close to the end of the batch) and to your surfactants (especially SLES), or switch the order of Carbopol and PQ-10 (add the PQ to the water tank followed by the surfactants, and make a premix of Carbopol in a separate vessel).
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@PassionFruit95 DO NOT use cationic Polyquternium-10, especially the high MW version, with any anionic polymer, such as Ultrez XX, under any circumstance. That is a recipe for failure as you’ve discovered. If you must employ a cationic polymer into a shampoo, use a chiefly acrylamide-functional one such as Polyquaternium-7, and not too much either or it will gel out the same as what you see here, only it will take a few weeks longer to do so. Also, even without the cationic agent, Ultrez cannot tolerate all that amphoteric surfactant, so it is wasted on this formula. Try PLAN B: use the PQ-10 30M as your thickener and double-duty as conditioner in same system. Save time, money, frustration…cool, huh?
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How to use plan B? What amount of poly10 is suggested as a thickener?
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Start out at 1.00% and test the result. You will have difficulty hydrating more than 2.00% of PQ10 30M, so there is your upper limit.
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