Paprik
Forum Replies Created
-
Ok, let’s solve this huge problem of yours.
Your method is wrong. You need to hydrate the gum with all water available from the formula. As you mentioned, SLES is 70% active (if I understand it correctly). The rest is water and maybe preservative. There you go, available water. If you’re using another surfactant, such as Cocamidopropyl betaine, there is up to 70% water. And so on.
Here’s how to process it correctly.
Combine all surfactants under low shear with water. Once homogenous, you can think of adding your gum. The best way would be to slurry it, in glycerin (glycerin helps stabilize the foam and you can make some product story with that) for example, and add that under low shear.Don’t forget to adjust pH first and add NaCl after. Sometimes adjusting pH is enough to thicken your product.
Hope this helps.
-
You should follow recommended inputs from supplier.
We do not know what brand name you are using, therefore what’s the activity or those raw materials.If the shampoo is for oily hair, use higher input, if it’s for daily use, you can use mid point.
It can be even the polyquot-7. Try to reduce it to 2% and see how it goes. -
Typically if water content (in the formula) is less than 5%, you do not need preservative. In another words, available water (aw) should be <0.6.
-
You are basically making a conditioner, not moisturizer.
So better make it wash-off conditioner and follow with some beard oil.
You are missing rheology modifier for stability.
Wrong lipid selections. You want to use very light lipids, not butters or plain oils.
Look also into volatile lipids, this should be majority, leaving only a tiny bit of plant oil/heavier lipid residue. -
Abdullah said:Paprik said:I would say no, it is not ok. This would be no good GMP.
I guess you always open new barrel or packaging of a raw material and that’s where the issue could appear.
It something goes wrong, it would be really hard to know what batch went wrong or so. Contamination, bad raw material etc …For surfactants kind of often but for preservatives and conditioners not so often as the quantity i purchase last longer.
Is the change and use of new package of raw materials the only concern or there could happen a problem for the small amount of product that stays in the wall of tank for one or two days?
I wish I had an answer for this. From common sense, the leftover material should be well preserved, so it should not be a problem.
A part of me wants to say it would be ok and I believe some companies would probably do it, but from good GMP, this shouldn’t be happening.
Perhaps someone else will have something to say about this
-
I would say no, it is not ok. This would be no good GMP.
I guess you always open new barrel or packaging of a raw material and that’s where the issue could appear.
It something goes wrong, it would be really hard to know what batch went wrong or so. Contamination, bad raw material etc … -
Are you saying you both are using the exact same formula and ingredients from the same exact suppliers? This also plays a big role.
Some surfactants (the foaming ones) does not work well in hard water, some do and some help the others to work in hard water.
Does you formula contain chelating agent?
-
Wrinkles appear on epidermis, however the problem is deeper - in dermis. Loss of collagen, elastin, fibroblasts etc … those support your skin (like a pillar). Once you lose some of it, the skin collapses - wrinkles happen.
To prevent wrinkles or help with them, you really need to rebuild the supportive structure in the skin. With Vit A, peptides for example.
You obviously cannot use tretinoic acid in cosmetics, but you can use retinol, retynaldehyde etc, which eventually get converted into small amount of tretinoin.Funny you mentioned cutting your wrinkles. Microneedling does kind of the same thing. You just don’t cause any “serious” damage, that could leave scars. You basically damage the skin, so the body responds to it and starts to heal it - builds collagen, elastin, fibroblasts ….
Cosmetic products (containing humectants) also help with suppleness, that “fill” the wrinkles with water and make them less visible.
-
Hello,
you would need to be more specific and share the essential oils.
You simply cannot mix any essential oils as some may create a horrific smells.
For example Fruity/Floral with Camphorous notes.You also need to check for safety limits at IFRA and make sure you follow safety guides.
-
Ok, first let me organize the formula
water 78.45%
Carbomer - 0.05%
Triethanolamine - 0.5%
glycerine - 2.5%
sorbitol - 1%
sodium lactate - 2.5%
butylene glycol - 1%
propylene glycol - 0.8%
DiSodium EDTA - 0.25%mineral oil - 4%
dimethicone - 1%
IPM - 1%
isopropyl myristate - 1%petroleum jelly - 0.5%
Cera microcrystallina- 0.5%Stearic acid - 2%
cetearyl alcohol - 1%
Glyceryl monostearate - 2%Potassium sorbate - 0.1%
sodium benzoate - 0.2%Fragrance - 0.8%You have 5 humectants, why? Is it for marketing? If so, put them at 0.1% and choose 1-2 to be the main ones. Glycerin and Sodium Lactate for example.
I believe you have way too much Triethanolamine to neutralize the Carbomer.
The ratio is 1.0-1.5 : 1.0 - TEA : Carbomer. Keep in mind you cannot adjust the final pH anymore. Also, as mentioned, the sodium lactate is most likely making the carbomer useless.
Better pick some other rheology modifier to make it easier for you. Xanthan Gum is perfect choice. Natural, easy to slurry with all those humectants, bang bang boom.
Ok, oil phase.
IPM should stand for isopropyl myristate. Is it doubled then?
Stearic acid is an anionic emulsifier. Has a strong charge (also affected by Sodium lactate as it’s an electrolyte), so you might want to re-think that and use higher portion of non-ionic high HLB waxy BLEND emulsifier.
Glyceryl monostearate is low HLB emulsifier - preferably suits W/O emulsion. Or it can help with rubbing time and viscosity, however as you are using Dimethicone, that won’t be your issue. You can get rid of it.
So looking over the formula, you have one anionic emulsifier, one W/O emulsifier and a bit of thickener/co-emulsifier. That is why people didn’t like it.
The W/O emulsifier would most likely destabilize you formula.The 0.8% fragrance is making me dizzy
Typical fragrances input for facial product is 0.2%. For me, sometimes even 0.1% is too much. That’s where, most likely, the irritation comes from.
!!!!! Also, those preservatives can be also irritating. And they work ONLY in lower pH. According to your TEA input, I’m pretty sure you have not reached this and bang, you have contamination/microbial growth!!! . Use some Euxyl PE 9010 or similar. !!!!!
Ok, I think I’m done -
Hello Iwere,
you would need to provide full formula with %, so we can review the inputs. Imagine making a special soup where you know only the ingredient, but no the amounts and method.
-
Those will create an occlusive layer on the skin that protects the skin.
Protects it from TEWL, should calm it/sooth, hydrate it, etc …That is how I would explain it to myself.
-
Derma-Rolling is now considered “old” procedure.
It’s called Micro-needling now and you use a pen-looking-like device that creates perpendicular channels into the skin. (Unlike roller, that caused a micro-tears in the skin).
It basically and supposedly damages the skin and depending on the depth and the amount, it starts a healing process that brings all the good stuff into your skin such as mineral, minerals, etc… and start building collagen, elastin etc… It also allows cosmetics to penetrate deeper thru the channels.
Most ppl are using hyaluronic acid during for a good glide and right after.
Skin peeling is also common (side) effect, but I guess not like when you use acid peelings.I doing microneedling myself (on me).
-
Low HLB emulsifier.
-
I checked some Datasheets for you.
Btw. @Pattsi is totally right.pH is to be above 6.5. It’s water soluble. Do not expose to heat.
Usage:
0.2 - 2% - in daily skin care
0.2 - 1% - in sun care
3% in lightening products.Add chelating agent, good to add vitamin E and you can add other forms (e.g. ascorbic acid) of Vit C.
For this amount of lipid you would need probably an emulsifier. If you stick to around 3%, the 2% Siligel could tolerate that. Or add some solubiliser.
Geogard 221 is active between 2 - 7. As you need the product to be around 7, is it not suitable preservative.
-
@Pattsi, what she said.
What is actually happening is, every drop of an oil is being “surrounded” by the solubiliser. It’s called a micelle. So you can imagine need much more solubiliser than oil.
Some oils are harder to solubilise, some are easier. That is why we can’t give you the exact amount of solubiliser you will need.
Don’t forget, the method is crucial.
-
Ups, sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought you are looking for foaming surfactants. (Not like emulsifiers). Soapy makes much more sense to me now
-
Belinda from IPCS likes to add them at the end.
I personally add them into water phase too. -
Do I understand correctly you want to have an emulsifier free serum with 10% lipids?
You need to realise that around 10% lipid is being used it normal lotion/cream formulas.To solubilise 10% of a lipid you would need (depending on the type of oil etc..) around 50% of solubiliser. As usually it takes 5:1 ratio. Sometimes even 10:1. (1:1 if you are lucky). So imagine it in a formula.
Usually more than 5% of solubiliser feels sticky on the skin.
So if you lower the oils (all oils - including antioxidant, fragrance etc) to a normal level, you need to solubilise it first in P-80. Basically mix those two properly (micelles are formed) and then, in small amounts add that solubilised lipid into the water phase and wait everytime until solution clears. Some might not finish as crystal clear at all tho.
Hope that helps.
-
I’m with @PhilGeis. LG+ should be slightly viscous clear liquid, this seems to be off and I would not trust it.
-
To name a few -
Sodium Coco Sulfate,
Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate
Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate -
They sell this ingredient at PureNature.co.nz. They recommend up to 3%.
However, I believe it’s water soluble. So in my opinion not suitable in balm. -
I’ve just read my comment and I didn’t write what I thought I did. I wanted to say : there are not many limitations. And that is why I’ve included the pic
Sorry for the confusion. -
I’ve looked at many Datasheets now and it seems there are limitations.
Also found this:
However, personally, I would only use it in wash off formulas. And definitely not on body leave-on products. But that’s my opinion.
