[Paprik]

Opacifier - PEG-150 Distearate, for example, suits surfactant systems.

[Paprik]

If you want a proper answer you will need to list inputs of all ingredients. In percentages. And final pH.

ASM seems ok at 6 for a facial product.

What I can say now is,

1. that you can remove Zinc PCA, Niacinamide, Propanediol and Glycerin, extract. Or keep it at 0.1% just for marketing. It basically doesn’t do much, if at all. All of it is water soluble and it gets washed away. Cleanser is suppose to clean/remove, not to add. Save those for leave on products.

2. Add robust preservative, potassium sorbate is not enough. Use Liquid Germall Plus at 0.5% for you own safety.

3. If you are using essential oil you will need an antioxidant. Better to use fragrance. The higher input of lipids in surfactant systems the higher changes of instability and also reducing effectiveness of the surfactants (as they are busy taking care of the lipid in your product).

[Paprik]

There are many! If you’re looking for best performance vs price then Glycerin is the winner.

Propanediol - also a good one, without tackiness/stickiness

Sodium PCA - expensive

Niacinamide - should help with hydration and good marketing.

Propylene Glycol, Pentylene Glycol, …. Just google it 🙂

• This reply was modified 4 months ago by  Paprik.

[Paprik]

Have you looked into Sepigel 305?

[Paprik]

Yeah, agree with Grail. You non-ionic emulsifier.

I also like Polawax GP200 (Cetearyl Alcohol, PEG-20 Stearate). It tolerates high and low pH. Builds nice viscosity.

[Paprik]

Hi Perry, will there be replay available, please?

[Paprik]

Please double check limits for ingredients [Germal plus for example]

[Paprik]

Looking at the ingredient and its INCI, it is oil soluble and it is an antioxidant.

It does not have pH as there is not water present.

If you’re asking what pH to formulate it within, a quick google search told me 3 - 11.

It is being used in face, body and hair products.

[Paprik]

Just to confirm what @Graillotion said.

The oil is continuous phase and tiny water droplets are suspended in it. So only every now and then the tiny small droplets hit the probe of your pH meter = not enough, not accurate.

As suggested, adjust the pH of you water phase before adding into oil phase. No further testing needed/required/can be done.

[Paprik]

Just to add a little - to check how the lipid “behaves”, simply put drop or two on back of your hand and see how it flows, how it shines after you spread it, how does it feel.

This will give you an idea how it will act in the product. If you use Coco Caprylate, you won’t get much emolliency. Dimethicone will give you more soft, silkier, softer feel. Castor oil will be very heavy, etc …

Experiment, experiment, experiment 🙂 Good luck!

[Paprik]

I guess those %’s are not as ASM (Active surfactant matter)? [It is always the best to post the FULL formula in a table or rows for easier reading including final pH and other information].

If you are using 10% (let’s say) 28% SLES, you only get 2.8% ASM. Not enough for hair product as it is a large area to wet and clean. Same with Coca-betaine. It is usually in ~33% dilution => 3% will give you ~1% ASM, not enough.

You can increase the guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride input. Again not sure what grade you’re using. There is a lot of them.

Do NOT put oils into surfactant systems (except for a fragrance and it is always good to solubilise it first). They will only negatively affect foam and destabilize the formula. Shampoo should remove oils from the hair, not to add.

Hope this helps, keep us posted.

[Paprik]

Are Gluconactone and Sodium Benzoate the only preservatives there?

What is the final pH? If you lower the pH does it lighten the colour?

[Paprik]

Wow, that is very generous of you. [I would grab them, but I am in New Zealand :'( )

Hopefully they will be given to someone who will use them and enjoy the knowledge they will gain from experimenting with them 🙂

[Paprik]

I would say 10 - 15% ASM is way too high. Hands are small area to clean. 10 - 15% ASM would be used in something like shampoo.

For face and hand products I would aim around 5% ASM. If you use good foaming surfactant it will be just fine and it will not over clean (and dry) the skin.

[Paprik]

Do you high shear?

You didn’t write the name of preservative (I assume phase C 1.5% was for it).

You have a decent lipid input, increase you emulsifier and add rheology modifier - e.g. Xanthan gum

[Paprik]

Clarifying as in it will remove all the hair, so the scalp will be clean? 😀

Depilatory products are around pH 11 - 11.5. Definitely not a good idea.

[Paprik]

Hi Perry,

looks like I missed this one and did not register. Weird.

Could you still send me the link once available, pretty please?

[Paprik]

I would say you could add with other humectants before Zen. Don’t forget preservative so it is protected during hydration.

[Paprik]

I like to add chelating agent at the beginning, but saw a lot of companies/people adding it in cooldown phase. As long as they are heat tolerant it is up to you 🙂

[Paprik]

If you want to become good, you will need “waste” some ingredients.

In the end it is not really wasting. You are gaining experiences with each formula.

Your formula is already too complex. You should really start slow with a few ingredients, learn how they behave, what they can achieve, what they can handle, what destroys them, how to process them correctly, regulatory limits, etc .. It takes time!

If you put 15 ingredients in you will never know what caused what in case there is a instability or other issue.

Start with good old water as hydrosol is expensive and can mask some smells.

Those would be my tips for now. Happy formulating 🙂

[Paprik]

Usage for Germall Plus (powder) is 0.05 - 0.2%.

For Liquid Germall Plus it is up to 0.5%.

I have never worked with the powder form, so cannot say how good it is. And depending where you live, Liquid Germall Plus is not allowed in body products in EU, but is in USA. And cannot be used in aerosols in USA, but can in EU. I believe. 😀 It is always better to double check and confirm. 🙂

[Paprik]

Hi, I thought you said you are making WATER IN OIL emulsion.

So I would assume that water input would be much lower?

If you have 60% of water you are most likely making OIL IN WATER emulsion. (Unless you are making High internal phase emulsion. ?)

[Paprik]

Sulfosuccinates are relatively good at foaming. Just give it a try. It might be just right for hands. You do not need a really excessive amount of foam.

They are hard to thicken, so definitely need a thickener.

[Paprik]

Hi @mikethair ,

I’m not involved in soap making, but I wanted to acknowledge your impressive achievements. We genuinely admire your accomplishments and the knowledge you generously share with us. However, there’s a slight discomfort when it feels like you’re consistently highlighting your successes/company. While we value your contributions, perhaps toning down the self-promotion a bit would make the community even more enjoyable for everyone.

Of course, this is just my perspective, but I want to express gratitude for your valuable presence within our community. There’s no doubt that we can all benefit from your expertise and experiences.

[Paprik]

I also feel like Mike is just showing off. It is becoming a tad annoying (to me) to be frank.