ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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It’s a very interesting topic. My understanding is that eye creams are marketing trick. Skin under eyes needs the same ingredients as skin in other areas of face. All you want is exclude potential irritants, actives such as salicylic acid and probably you don’t need a lot of oil. I thought caffeine is good for under eye area but apparently it’s efficacy isn’t proven by any serious publication. I have not been using eye creams for a year already and noticed no difference.
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Examples of cationic ingredients: BTMS-50, centrimonium chloride and polyquats. Be careful when mixing it with anionic or amphoteric (an emulsion might break).
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My points are 1) the comedogenic studies were carried on rabbits’ ears. Skin on rabbit’s ears is quite different from human skin, so professionals argue whether commedogenic scales are even accurate. 2) there’s no legit study that proves that coconut oil has anti-acne effect (feel free to prove me wrong). Not everything written online is accurate. Analize LOIs of popular commercial products for face. You won’t see coconut oil there.
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Recommend by who? What’s the source?
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It’s an emulsion made of cationic ingredients. Its not good or bad. It’s used for hair products a lot due to conditioning properties.
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@shaujaat, read section 6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_vera
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Saying that someone is cosmetic chemist should be supported by degree, because chemistry is a science. But I don’t think that title “formulator” should be supported by the degree.
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Cosmetic products are not supposed to be edible. You can create a product that is edible and can also be applied on skin, however, you will end up with not tasty lotion with very poor performance. Carbopol and TEA are definitely not edible. I don’t understand why would consumer expect a cosmetic product to be edible.
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Carbomer is not edible. If you want an edible gel, use a food grade xantham gum. It’s not the same as a cosmetic grade one.
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@gld010, I recreated chanel sublimage using supplies from the above mentioned sites (minus a couple of fancy extracts that don’t do anything). Almost identical but the smell (I am sure they use some patented fragrance, so I didn’t bother).
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@jeremien, I don’t think an emulsion with polysorbate 60 only will be very stable. I usually combine it with either low HLB emulsifiers+fatty acids or polymers. Goes well with Sepinov EMT. If I am not mistaken, I saw Poly 60 and Sepinov mix in a couple of La Prairie’s products.
I read recently that glyceryl oleate, which is w/o emulsifier acts as a thinkener in o/w emulsions. Ordered it recently to see how it’s going to work.
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@gld010 If you read the LOI of the most popular cosmetic products on the market you will notice that 99% of the ingredients can be found on lotioncraftet or makingcosmetics. And I am not talking drug store. You can recreate $400 moisturizer using supplies from lotioncafter.
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Self-study is often underestimated.
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https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Polysorbate-60_p_133.html
Google polysorbate 60 and you will get many sources that classify it as a thickener.
That aside, I run dozens of experiments with it and can confirm, it thickens emulsions. If you do not believe me, make a basic o/w lotion, then make another batch but with 2% of polysorbate 60 and compare.
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@Microformulation, I do not argue that understanding chemistry is absolutely vital
to be a good formulator. However, being devil’s advocate, I am
working for a professional consulting
firm. I do not hold a degree in accounting, I
am a mathematician. Funny enough, my supervisor holds a
bachelor in chemistry. And I don’t recall a single case when any of my clients asked about my degree. All they care about is my work experience. -
I took colloidal chemistry at high school and learned next to nothing. I understood some of it when started formulating and had to research it again. I am not claiming that I am anything close to a professional but I noticed that sometimes I can give a reasonable advice to people with a degree in chemistry but who are new to cosmetic formulation. Simple because I did ‘that experiment’ many times and I know the ingredient. So I guess if someone is very passionate about the topic and invested their ‘10,000 hours’ they might have some knowledge without a degree (doesn’t justify fake claims about the certificate). Regarding this particular brand, I spend a lot of time analizing LOIs of popular product, and think that they are rather mainstream.
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@jeremien, I don’t understand your point. Polysorbate 60 is a thickener. You can’t use 60 and 80 interchangeably unless you are using them as high HLB emulsifiers to mix with a low HLB emulsifiers like glyceryl oleate
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@Lady_B, I use caprylic/capric triglycerides when making oil free product. I will appreciate if you can share more details on that dependency.
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Well, not science just my experience: grape seed oil and rosehip oil both mostly polyunsaturated with high iodine value. Both go rancid in months and reduce stability of the emulsion. Not personal experience but an observation: most of commercial products are made of: squalane, jojoba oil, shea butter. Other oils added as claim ingredient at less that 1%.
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@megcapati, I made an experiment with C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer (which is the same as ultrez 20) and it was much less viscous. I didn’t have white lumps, but the viscosity was similar to yours. Consider another type of thickener. I had a very thick transparent gel with ultrez 30.
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If this product actually really all claimed ingredients at claimed % customers will not repurchase it. Retinol makes skin peel. It makes skin ‘thinner’ and more sensitive. This is the reason why retinol isn’t in every anti-aging moisturizer. It’s too powerful. The consumer doesn’t want to deal with peeling skin. Most of products with ‘retinol’ include retinil palmitate, that doesn’t do anything, not retinol.
This product includes a lot of essential oils (irritants) and salycilic acid in addition to retinol. Skin will look awful after a week of this. Also they said ‘squalene’. It’s not stable, that’s why squalAne is used in cosmetics. -
80 and 20 are solubilizers, 60 is a thicknener.
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I have a serious suspicion that it’s not listed in the right order. Back to your question, the answer is no. Too much in one bottle. I would not package retinol and salicylic acid together. Retinol is so powerful by itself that it should not be mixed with other actives in such a concentration. Retinol does play well with ceramides (many professionals will say there’s no proof that ceramides work), tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate and probably bisabolol to reduce irritation. But this list looks too intense. Also, Niacinamide and salycilic require different pH to perform well.
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@mikethair, I know many people who prefer bar soap. But with all due respect, the fact that there’s a demand doesn’t prove that these products are good for skin. As an example nothing reduces TEWL better than petrolatum, yet, consumer demands organic/gluten free/vegan ’grapeseed oil’. Human skin is on the acidic side.
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@Doreen, let me know how it goes
