ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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I am actually using Dimethicone 1000 for hair conditioners. Works fine. Where are you located? I know a place that sells 1000 and cyclomethicone rather cheap in the UK (I have to order 12 from the US, and it’s much more expensive for me). By the way cylcomethicone is also great for hair. I usually mix them.
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People are different and skin is different. Some people are using high alkaline soap their entire life and have no issues at all. Others, like me experience all sympthoms described in the article. So, both type of products should exist.
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@em88, thank you for the idea with PEG-50 Shea butter. Btw is doesn’t cause soaping.
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@Doreen, petrolatum did give problems. I could overcome it by increasing level of rheology modifiers, but it lead to the peeling of the ready product. So I decided to skip it. It actually makes sense as it’s a very lightweight base. Great news is that rheology modifiers I used abobe can tolerate tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate, which broke viscosity of both Sepinov EMT10 and Aristoflex AVC.
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The higher viscosity dimethicone is better for hair products. It will work for body product as well. 12 is for face, as it has a lighter feel.
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The ‘Dermatology Times’ in blue is a link to the article.
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Hello All! An update:
I changed shea butter to PEG-50 Shea butter and Squalane (6% of shea butter replaced by 4% of squalane and 2% of PEG-50 Shea butter). I also used a mixture of Ultrez 20 and Sodium Carbomer (0.3%+0.2%). Ultrez was added to the water phase and Sodium Carbomer after emulsification and neutralization of Ultrez. I suspect I can just up Ultrez to 0.5-0.6% and will get the same result. The great thing about sodium carbomer is that it can be used to “fix mistakes”.
So, I got a base with a very nice light texture (cold process and no tackiness that is so typical for polymers) and no silicones. I added retinol liposomes and tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in it (no loss of viscosity). I usually use silicones, but I didn’t want anything in the formula that can potentially interact with the actives (liposomes are slow release already, so I didn’t want to add silicones that in theory might slow down the absorption of retinol).
Thank you all very much for your help. The formula if you want to use it:
Phase INCI % A Aqua 70.75% A Tetrasodium EDTA 0.20% A Glycerine 1.00% A PEG-50 Shea butter 2.00% A Butylene Glycol 2.00% A Ultrez 20 0.30% A Propanediol 1.00% HLB Weighted av HLB calc B Jojoba oil 4.00% 6 45% 2.68 B Squalane 4.00% 12 45% 5.36 B Tocopherol 0.10% 6 1% 0.07 Oil phase HLB B Tocopheryl Acetate 0.75% 6 8% 0.50 8.61 B Sorbitan Oleate 1.00% 4.3 14.3% 0.61 B Glyceryl Oleate 4.00% 3.5 57.1% 2.00 B Polysorbate 20 2.50% 16.7 35.7% 5.96 C Sodium carbomer 0.20% 8.58 Emulsifier HLB C Retinol liposomes 2.00% C Tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate 3.00% C Bisabolol 0.20% C Paraben DU 1.00% C TEA -
Thank you very much, @Microformulation. This is exactly what I was looking for.
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I would rather go for a poorly formulate product with SLS (the cheap kind that is impossible to wash off) than a high pH soap. But I understand that there’s a market for this product, so it should be produced.
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I have family members who are refusing to use anything else but traditional soap bars. I personally have not been using soap for probably 10 years (unless I am in someone’s house and that’s all they have) because I do experience all the symptoms described in the article shared by @Belassi
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@Gunther, maybe I am missing something, but I have 3 emulsifiers (6.5%) in this formula. The only purpose of polysorbate 20 is to bring down HLB of the emulsification system (to make it the same as the total hlb of the oil phase). Sobritan oleate is a liquid low hlb emulsifier. Same as glyceryl oleate. There’s no polysorbate 80 at all. I have commercial emulsifiers, both conventional and polymeric but I am trying to get a particular sensorial that I will not get with waxy commercial blends. The reason why I am avoiding polymers is that I am going to use this formula as a base to add tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate. Sodium carbomer tolerates it, but Sepinov, Aristoflex, Sepiplus 400, Emulthix and couple others stubbornly lose viscosity. And I am trying to avoid using fatty acids in this formula.
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Thank you @Sibech.
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Well, soap’s purpose is to clean our skin. Modern surfactants do clean skin and gentle, means there’s a replacement. Or I am missing something?
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There always will be people who prefer soap. I think it is an outdated technology though.
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I see your point.
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@Perry, I agree with the most of what you said, with one exception. There are anti-aging creams that provide noticeable benefits - creams with tretinoin. Properly formulated retinol also has an effect on fine lines. Less than tretinoin though.
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I experimented with many polymer emulsifiers including Aristoflex and none of them performs well in presence of high amount of electrolytes. My recommendation is using Sepimax Zen. It is designed specifically to tolerate low pH and high amount of electrolytes. But you have to make sure that you have a good emulsification system, because Sepimax Zen has no emulsification properties (unlike Aristoflex that acts as an emulsifier). Think of it as carbomer, that you have to leave overnight to hydrate. It doesn’t like high shear, but if you allow it sufficient time to hydrate, you will not need much stirring.
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My “secret” mix for creams is 2% Butylene Glycol, 1.5% Glycerin, 1% Propanediol. Sometimes I just skip glycerin at all and up Propanediol.
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Thank you @em88. I will try PEG-50 shea butter. It actually tends to “soap” in serums but let’s see how it’s going to work in this system.
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@Christopher, it is a good question, and I am trying to research it now. I recently read that some experts came to the conclusion that you need as little as 0.1%! And if you add more, you are actually increasing not reducing change of oxidation. We are talking about tocopherol here, that has the only purpose of preventing oils from getting rancid.
Regarding tocopheryl acetate, it’s an active ingredient that is used for skin benefits. And you can actually use 2% if you want to. Some manufacturers suggest up to 5.
If you analise LOIs of commercial products you will notice that tocopheryl acetate is used at a higher % than tocopherol.
I will let you know if I find a reliable research paper.
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@MarkBroussard, it’s often out of stock on makingcksmetics and lotioncrafter. So I bought 2 litres not to think about it. I understand 2 litres sounds funny for professionals, but it’s a lot for a homecrafter.
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There is quite a lot of information online but in summary all oils oxidize. The higher oil’s iodine value the faster it will oxidize. You can also analyze fatty acids composition, for example saturated fats are less prone to oxidation than monounsaturated fats. Polyunsaturated fats oxidize even faster. Try to google iodine value table. Let me know if you can’t find it. I should have it somewhere. I know that some carriers oils contain a lot of vitamin E (apricot kernel, cherry kernel etc) but unfortunately they won’t prevent essential oils from oxidation and will oxidize themselves. So, you need tocopherol in every formulation with oils. I don’t have a comprehensive study on carrier oils but I should have one on essential oils.
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@Dirtnap1, I don’t have it unfortunately. Both sodium carbomer and ultrez 20 worked when I excluded butters and left only jojoba oil. But surprisingly enough a moisturizer with 10% of jojoba oil only feels greasier than a mixture with shea butter and even petrolatum totalling 12%. I will try to add carbomer/ultrez20 to the waterphase to see if there’s any difference.
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@Chemist77 I will write an update once I try it.
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You need antioxidants every time you use oils. You don’t need it only when you use petrolatum, mineral oil, and synthetic oils because all natural oils do oxidize.