ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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No, I haven’t. CAPB has electrolytes, and I thought carbopol isn’t a good idea. I will try sepimax zen out of curiosity but frankly, I am happy with the foaming bottle. Can you share your experience with carbopol and surfactants?
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@Gunther, the only way I found to thicken this formula was xantham. Crothix doesn’t work for such formulas. I tried PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate but didn’t notice much difference. So, I use it in a foaming bottle.
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Post the LOI.
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PEG-40 HCO will give it very nice slip, but it has rather unpleasant taste. Since most of lipbalms don’t have water, you don’t really need an emulsifier. A lipbalm can be made of waxes (beeswax, candelila wax, carnauba wax) and oils. Melt 20% of beeswax with 80% of castor oil and you will get a very simple lipbalm. Butters tend to crystallize. You can mix oil and butter but don’t use more than 20% of butter (it’s not scientific it’s my experience with shea butter and cocoa butter). I saw a product with hydrogenated castor oil. It’s not the same as PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil. The first one is a wax.
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I am very glad that leucidal that provides poor protection from both gram positive and gram negative bacteria and no protection from mold worked great for you.
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It really depends on the formula. You can make 12% oil-in-water that would feel incredibly greasy, and 20% water-in-oil that is not greasy at all.
Ingredients like silica or crosslinked silicones change the feel as well. It has nothing to do with % of the oil. -
It is not an oil and you do not need an emulsifier. Honey should dissolve in water. What is the problem?
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Read about your preservative (radish/coconut) here: http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
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The “natural” soap is a highly alkaline product and it technically has no free water in it. It doesn’t need a preservative. If your face oils blends have no water in it, they do not need preservative (with certain caveats). But anything with water needs a preservative. And I would be very worried about the HA serum, as I assume it has water and that radish thing you use doesn’t sounds as a preservative to me.
I do not recommend you to rely on what is considered “generally online”. Most of DIY products are beyond terrible. That natural soap has an aggressive pH. All essential oils are cytotoxic or phototoxic. Natural preservatives fail. None of these fancy butters are even close to petrolatum in decreasing transdermal water loss. Nothing can replace silicones. I can talk about it for hours.
Regarding natural emulsifiers, not being a huge fan of natural stuff myself, I tested 10 ecocert emulsifiers recently (I am curious). I really liked these two: Montanov L and https://www.makingcosmetics.com/CreamMaker-FLUID_p_965.html (it’s both Ecocert and COSMOS).If you ask me, I would say glyceryl stearate/PEG-100 stearate blend is the best our of conventional emulsifiers and it’s the best replacement for polawax. It is not “natural” because of ethoxylated compounds, but it’s very easy to use and if you pair it with 3-4% of cetyl alcohol and 0.2% of xantham (natural) or carbomer (better than xantham but not “natural”) it will be quite stable. Just add fatty alcohols. Glyceryl stearate/PEG-100 stearate would make “fluffier” but liquid lotion if you don’t add cetyl/cetearyl alcohol.
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Are you sure it’s PEG-40 HCO in the lip butter? It’s has rather nasty taste. It could be hydrogenated castor oil which is actually a wax, not the PEG. What is your benchmark product?
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@PADDY, Regarding shampoo bars, surfactants are very tricky. They require more knowledge than lotions (I am talking about o/w lotions because w/o is a nightmare). Sampoo bars on the other hand are very forgiving. If you want to make a shampoo bar, go to swiftcraftymonkey and get her ezine on shampoo bars (it’s around £12 and is totally worth it). After you read it, please check the list of UK suppliers I posted above. But from the top of my head you will find everything on the soap kitchen and gracefruit. Let me know (here or message) if you decide to try her formula, because SCI that is sold in the UK is different from what swiftcraftymonkey uses and it requires different processing. Took several attempts (and waisted material) to get it right.
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Makingcosmetics have tons of emulsifiers blends. Check emulsifiers section. ‘Natural’ isn’t defined. You need to understand what ‘natural’ standard you are trying to comply with (ecocert etc).
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Face wash shouldn’t be higher than 10% of active surfactants. Also cationics irritate eyes.
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PEG-20 Glyceryl Triisostearate. Commercial name
Cithrol™ 10GTIS
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Also check out makingskincare website and Facebook pages. A lot of useful info.
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Suppliers for homecrafters the UK:
naturallythinking
thesoapkitchen
gracefruit
aromantic
mysticmoments
sr-skincare (limited choice but they have a couple of rare ingredients)supplier in Italy with relatively cheap delivery: glamourcosmetics.it
makingcosmetics products are available on Amazon.uk. Much more expensive than in the US, but still worth it for rare ingredients.
some equipment: betterequipped
overheadstirrer: get a cheap Chinese one on ebay (100W 2500 rpm is ok for homecrafting)stability testing: lookup for reptile eggs incubator on ebay.
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Ecocert allows it as far as I am aware.
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@Mrs_ditdut, get two dropper bottles for pH adjustment liquids. One should be 50% solution of citric acid (it will dissolve easily even in cold water) another for 18% NaOH solution. You can use triethanolamine (TEA) or NaOH. NaOH is cheaper, considered ‘natural’ and stronger. It’s the matter of preference which one you want to use to increase pH (I use TEA, because I formulate for myself and friends and don’t care about ‘natural’ label. Also they sell it in large packs and you don’t need a lot unless you are making soap). For decreasing, it’s always citric acid. I know that lactic acid is used sometimes but citric is the industry standard. Happy holidays!
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If you are using SLES, don’t add cetrimonium chloride. You can’t mix anionic and cationic surfactants. You can however add cationic gums and quats. Polyquat 10 is a great conditioner. It’s quaternised hydroxyethyl celulose, which means it will thicken your product. Polyquat 7 is also good. It comes as a liquid and easier to use comparing to polyquat 10. I prefer adding both but it really depends on formula. Silicones to be added to surfactants phase, because they don’t mix with water, unless you use peg-8 dimethicone or amodimethicone. Regarding active surfactants matter, as I mentioned 8-10% for face and baby products, 10-15% shampoos, 15-20% shower gel and handwash, 30-35% bubble bath (the is not applied on skin). Makingskincare have a very good calculator and more information on it. Keep in mind it’s almost impossible to predict how surfactants will behave. A tiny chance in percentages or changing essential oil might lead to separation or loss out viscosity. Usually SLES and CABP are easy to thicken. If I doesn’t work, use crothix liquid. Another point to mention, don’t bring pH below 6 (google exact number). CAPB turns cationic.
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What is your benchmark product?
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It’s important to include some, because they give the slip and conditioning effect. Without cationics the shampoo won’t feel like a shampoo.
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Try SLSa and CAPB. Not more than 15% active surfactants matter. Do you have any cationics? Polyquat 7, cetrimonium chloride etc.
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@Doreen, Paula’s choice products are very well formulated. I am sure her products are at pH where acids are active. I tested many popular commercial products. Many of them are neutralised for a simple reason, to cause less irritation.
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I did a blind test of 10 natural emulsifiers and like Montanov L (that can be used for natural/ “green” concepts with Ecocert validation) the best.
It has a nice slip upon application and velvety after-feel. Natragem EW is also nice. From easily accessible https://www.makingcosmetics.com/CreamMaker-FLUID_p_965.html -
@Jdawgswife76, I hope you don’t get us wrong. All these comments are not to discourage you from formulating and trying new things. But you really need a lot of experience for acids because they are dangerous. All these toners in the market are neutralized (they don’t do anything). You will be shocked how 5% lactic acid can burn your skin when formulated at low pH. And you might do it because you probably used 5% commercial acid toner on your face before. Please take your favorite acid toner and measure its pH. I don’t know which one you are using, but I know, it’s 6.
Start with emulsions. Learn all ingredients and types of products. Once you are comfortable with lotions, move to surfactants, because they are much more tricky. I noticed you are trying to formulate shampoo with glucosides. I am sure you will be able to make it, but you will not like it. Glucosides are terrible for shampoos. And it’s ok, I made that mistake, that is why I know it. So start from liquid soap, then maybe body wash, then shampoo (it’s the most difficult one). I highly discourage you to experiment with 1) retinol, 2) acids 3) sunscreens (especially sunscreens) until you have a lot of experience. I will send you some useful materials.