[ngarayeva001]

I haven’t seen any evidence that aloe vera or panthenol have noticeable skin benefits. If you have a study that proves me wrong, will be happy to read and change my mind.
I didn’t say allantoin is a bad ingredient. You just won’t be able to dissolve much.
Hyaluronic acid is not any special. It’s just an overpriced humectant. You can get the same result with a right combination of other humectants.

Regarding your formula, it looks like a serum. A moisturisers are emulsions in most cases. To make an emulsion you need water, oil and emulsifier.

You can make a serum and layer a moisturiser on the top. This approach is actually preferred by many.

[ngarayeva001]

@Gunther, I agree with you, and the first thing that comes to my mind when I see such formulas is to say “please just add bloody parabens!!”. But in many cases it’s not an option because the client won’t pay for it.

[ngarayeva001]

0.5% of xanthan for this formula might be a bit too much, I would reduce to 0.2%. 
I don’t see a reason to add 1% of vitamin e. It’s an antioxidant for your product (not for skin benefits) and you don’t need much. Please confirm it’s tocopherol not tocopheryl acetate.
3% of glycerin and 3% of 1,3 propanediol might be ok, but it’s a matter of your taste. You should make it and decide whether you like it or not. I would say it’s a bit too much, but depends on the skin. It will be a little bit sticky but some people actually like it. By the way, mix allantoin in propanediol and add it in the end. It’s heat sensitive.
Reduce panthenol to 0.5%.

Other than that your formula is good to go for the first lab run. All further changes will depend on your results.

[ngarayeva001]

Assuming that the list of ingredients is in descending order (which it should be) , all these butters are seriously below 1% line. I don’t know why they even added them if the product is claimed to be “oil-free”

[ngarayeva001]

Yes they have quite a few ingredients, but mostly a fluff. Always look at functional ingredients.

I could have many suggestions how to make it more silky, but I don’t know what would be acceptable for you. I am not sure which natural standard you are sticking to. Looking at that peptide moisturiser, I would say Sepinov EMT 10 is a great idea but it’s derived of acrylic acid if that’s ok for you.. You can buy it on lotioncrafter in the US.

I also think you need a humectant. Either glycerin or 1,3 propanediol.

[ngarayeva001]

75g distilled water

4g aloevera gel - it doesn’t do anything. Remove it.

3g hyaluronic acid - what molecular weight is it? If it’s regular HMW you are going to get a sticky mess. If it’s ULMW it is going to be outrageously expensive. Why is it here? Is it a thickener or a humectant in this formula?

2g Panthenol - sticky and doesn’t do anything. If you want to keep it, reduce to 0.2%.

6g niacinamide - ok

5g occlusive (help needed) - you are either making a moisturiser or a serum. this is a formula for a serum, so you don’t need anything “occlusive”. Or rewrite all of as w/o emulsion.

1g allantoin - allantoin doesn’t dissolve in water above 0.5%. And it’s heat sensitive, if you were hoping to dissolve by heating your water phase.

2.5g xanthun gum - It’s an enormous amount. It will make a bad glue not a serum. Especially if that hyaluronic is HMW. 0.5% max.

1.5g K712 preservative - ok.

You are missing a humectant. To keep it simple add 2% of glycerin. Sodium Lactate or Sodium PCA are good options as well (don’t up more than 2% or it will be sticky). I would suggest glycols, but looking at your preservative I suspect you want it to be “natural”. 

[ngarayeva001]

Here is a starting point:

INCI	%
Aqua	42.8%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	10.0%
SLES	45.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.0%
Germaben II	1.0%
NaCl	qs
Citric Acid	qs

Active surfactant matter for my SLES is 27% and for CAPB is 35%. Confirm with your supplier.

[ngarayeva001]

The most basic and common approach used by the majority of brands is SLES + CAPB thickened with salt. You can add other ingredients to make it milder and more conditioning. For example PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate - it has refattening properties, and Polyquaterniums 7 or 10 (or both) for conditioning. You can add Cetrimonium chloride, but really tiny amount. It’s a cationic detangler. You want your shampoo to have active surfactant matter of 15%. You will not need any additional thickeners (but salt) for SLES+ CAPB. 
Another approach is using sulfate free mild surfactants, but they are much harder to work with and a real pain to thicken. Start with the basics and when you are comfortable with your knowledge you can go to sulfate-free if you want. But properly formulated sulfate based shampoo is going to be mild enough.

Regarding silicones, they reduce foam significantly. You can use water soluble silicones, such as amodimethicone emulsion (usually it is sold as a blend: amodimethicone, trideceth -12 and cetrimonium chloride). If you really want to add shea butter, you can go for watersoluble PEG-50 Shea Butter. But no real butters and oils.

I can see “PEG-40” in your formula. I assume it’s PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil. You can add it if you want to introduce fragrance (mix your essential or fragrance oil with PEG-40 HCO and then add to your shampoo). There is no other reason to add it.

The approach I describe will give you crystal clear and thick product. It you want it to be opaque, add pearliser.

[ngarayeva001]

You added literally everything to stop it from foaming:

Lanolin?!? what is it even doing there?
Stearic Acid
Virgin Coconut oil
BTMS-50- it’s not used in shampoos
Shea butter
Cetyl stearyl
Dimethicone-!!!!!!!!!!!

Remove all of it and add real surfactants. Was it an attempt of creating of a cationic shampoo? Make a conventional mild shampoo and add polyquaterniums and amodimethicone for conditioning.

[ngarayeva001]

Different HLB for w/o and o/w……. My brain exploded when I read it but now many thing made sense. You are right, it’s almost impossible to find w/o HLB tables.

I would really appreciate if someone can share.

[ngarayeva001]

This is really heartbreaking to read this. I am just shocked that you paid to professional formulators for this formula. When I just saw it, I thought it’s a hobbyist formula from Etsy… I really wish you don’t have to sell your business and manage to get out of it. Good luck.

[ngarayeva001]

Olivem and beeswax should be ok. The only concern I have is that your oil phase is a bit high, so you need to make it and see whether it’s stable or not. I don’t have much experience with Olivem because it’s too draggy for my taste.
Have a look how it was used in The Drunk Elephant’s product:

https://incidecoder.com/products/drunk-elephant-protini-tm-polypeptide-cream
 
They used cetearyl alcohol as a thickener (pretty standard), carbomer, xanthan and Sepinov EMT 10 as stabilisers.

Regarding serum bottle, it might not work, but you need to run the formula and see. I predict it’s going to be too viscous. 

[ngarayeva001]

It is going to be greasy. If you have very dry skin it might be ok. If you decide that you want more elegant product consider gel maker i posted above and different oils (a combination of oils and butters, not just butters).

[ngarayeva001]

I recommend to reduce vitamin E to 0.5 max. Same about essential oil.  Overall it should work now. I prefer fatty alcohols  for thickening but I see no reason (other than sensorial) why you can’t use beeswax. You might want some humectant in it as well (glycerin?). Keep optiphen at maximum allowed amount. Aloe vera and natural emulsifiers are hard to preserve.

[ngarayeva001]

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/GelMaker%C2%AE-NAT_p_1420.html

Have a look at this one. It is considered (or should I say market as) ‘natural’. The texture isn’t bad for a ‘natural’ emulsifier. But you need to reduce your oil phase for this emulsifier. Otherwise look at polawax but it has ethoxylated compounds.

[ngarayeva001]

The problem is, beeswax isn’t an emulsifier. You need a proper emulsifier for this product. Can you please put this in % because drops and grams are very hard to read. Your water phase is around 30% while oil phase is around 60. What kind of texture are you expecting to get? My point is, it will be very very greasy unless it’s what you want.

[ngarayeva001]

And your emulsifier is?

[ngarayeva001]

It is greasy and doesn’t spread well. But if you compare no moisturizer at all or oil over damp skin I vote for oil over damp skin.

[ngarayeva001]

I think you should post your formula and have it reviewed. Some products, such as conditioners do have pretty unpleasant smell until you add fragrance, but lipsticks are not one of those.

[ngarayeva001]

I wouldn’t say it has less, or more. I didn’t notice much difference.
Yes I used crothix for thickening it. CDEA and Polyquat 10 are important for this formula because they add viscosity.

[ngarayeva001]

You don’t even need to preserve it. It has extremely high pH. Bacteria just die 🙂

[ngarayeva001]

@Pharma, I hope you don’t mind if I pick your brain on the HLB.

When I just got into formulation I was calculating HLB for O/W emulsions. Many professionals on this forum think that if you use commercial blend of emulsifiers like Arlacel 165 you don’t need to bother. Also HLB system has limitations (applicable to non-ionincs only, doesn’t specify how much of emulsifier to use etc). So, I stopped calculating it. Which doesn’t really impact the stability as I dump tons of stabilisers, polymeric emulsifiers etc to the most of my formulas. 

Now back to W/O. Most of oils have pretty high HLB. Whatever I do, I end up with average required HLB around 10. The only way to have it low is to use pure dimethicone or mineral oil. My W/O emulsifiers are all below 6. I really don’t get how to solve this. Also, if you look at many commercial W/O products they do make W/Os with high required HLB oils (esters) somehow. Low HLB oils tend to be greasy. Making W/O with greasy oils is a terrible idea..
Am I missing anything?

[ngarayeva001]

I guess I must try that experiment again… so based on your knowledge of w/o systems, do you know any reason not to thicken water phase?

[ngarayeva001]

@Gunther, no, it’s a sulfate free shampoo. Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, CAPB and cocamide DEA. I use it 3 times a week and I don’t really feel any build up. I can see it to be more relevant for fine hair but I think the problem is exaggerated by fear mongering beauty bloggers.

 I actually added 0.3% of lavender EO to that silicone blend. It made it slightly cloudy (really insignificant) but it’s for my use, so doesn’t matter. It doesn’t separate. I have been using it for several months already.

[ngarayeva001]

Yes, it is quite an expensive and quite nice product. I suspect it’s simulgel NS. But even if it’s just Sepinov EMT 10 separately, I really wonder why is it added to W/Si system…