[ngarayeva001]

Interesting..  It looks like Isolan range to me. I wouldn’t think you can get O/W with Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate.

[ngarayeva001]

INCI: Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate (and) Coco-Caprylate/Caprate (and) Disteardimonium Hectorite

Polyglyceryl-4 Isostearate - HLB value approx 3. What kind of emulsifier is it?

You are trying to make a High Internal Phase water in oil emulsion. You need to understand the difference between oil in water emulsions and water in oil emulsions. You need to understand how to stabilise water in oil. It’s not Sepiplus 400 where you just dump water, oil and sepiplus 400 in one beaker and stir it with a fork..

[ngarayeva001]

Does your presentation specify how to process w/o emulsions? It is quite different than mixing two phases together. You need electrolytes for the stability and probably magnesium stearate in your oil phase. Also the processing is different.

[ngarayeva001]

Probably @Dtdang hasn’t worked with W/O emulsifiers before, so the question. Have you made W/O emulsions?

[ngarayeva001]

Do you want to try this?

Arlacel™ 165 - Croda	Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100 Stearate	5.00%
Cetyl Alcohol	Cetyl Alcohol	1.50%
SEPINOV EMT 10 - SEPPIC	Hydroxyethyl Acrylate / Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer	1.00%
SEPIMAX™ ZEN - SEPPIC	Polyacrylate Crosspolymer-6	0.50%

It obviously makes it hot process but should be more stable like that.

[ngarayeva001]

It’s really hard to tell like this and you need to experiment, but I would guess (based on my experience with these emulsifiers) 2% to 2.5% of Sepinov EMT10 plus 0.5% of Sepimax Zen. I am not really sure you need Carbopol at all, because these are gel makers. The reason why I suggest Sepimax Zen and Spinov EMY 10, is that they both can emulsify relatively high amount of oil and have very different textures. Sepinov is more similar so sodium polyacrylate based emulsifiers and Sepimax is more like a marmalade (similar to Ez 4U actually) with a very good slip. I think they compliment each other. Don’t go for more than 0.5% os Sepimax because it will be “wobbly” like fruit jelly. Lubrizol’s Ez 4U will do the same trick, but Sepimax Zen is also electrolyte resistant, which is a benefit. Try it and see whether it’s stable and emulsifies properly. To be honest, I don’t go for such a high oil phase in O/W emulsions. Will you consider a combination of conventional emulsifier and a polymeric one? You still can make it in a gel format. 

[ngarayeva001]

Hi there. I am a proud owner of this little monster: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ztopia-Commercial-Professional-Laboratory-Cosmetics/dp/B07CPQJXTF/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=overhead+stirrer&qid=1566381689&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNlZLODZTT1lWUU01JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjk4ODM2VEE4WlJaQTJYTFk1JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3MTc5NzkyM1BRVFBXRFA1SThQJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

You can find it on ebay as well. Look for 100W and 3000 RPM. I have been using it quite often (let’s say it’s running 4-5 hours a week for almost a year). I absolutely love it and think it’s one of the best purchases I ever made. However! It is not a replacement for stick blender. This little guy is used where you need low shear. For example for dissolving stubborn disodium EDTA or hydrating a polymer. I also use it for emulsions based on polymeric emulsifiers and for initial processing of W/O emulsions. I use it to obtain smooth texture of O/W emulsions after I applied high shear (I emulsify the emulsion with a stick blender for a minute or two, because higher shear assures smaller droplets, which means more stable emulsion) and then let the overhead stirrer mix it for 30-40 minutes while it cools down.

To conclude, it’s a good tool to have but you still need a stick blender.

[ngarayeva001]

Definitely not rotten eggs. A repulsive harsh ‘chemical’ smell. It was so bad that they opened the door when were drying my hair. It’s a pity because the result was very impressive. But I would prefer not to risk again.

[ngarayeva001]

It’s not an emulsifier. You will need 2.5% of Sepinov EMT to stabilize 30% of oils. A gum wound not contribute much to viscosity in a product where 2.5% of Sepinov is already used. I would rather add another emulsifier 

[ngarayeva001]

By the way, Lubrizol states that EZ 4U can emulsify up to 50% of oils:
https://www.lubrizol.com/Personal-Care/Products/Product-Finder/Products-Data/361

It’s not a bad emulsifier, but the texture reminds orange marmalade to me, so I never use it alone.

[ngarayeva001]

I agree, Sepiplus 400 is an option as well. It has a drawback though (actually as well as the ones I listed, but slightly more I believe), it is balling..

[ngarayeva001]

Just one would be challenging for such a high oil phase. I would say you need to mix it with conventional emulsifiers to ensure stability. From the top of my head, Sepinov EMT 10 by seppic should hold around 30% of oils but I wouldn’t rely on one emulsifier for job. You can combine it with Sepimax Zen or Pemulen EZ 4U (very nice aesthetic together). Simulgel EG (also Seppic) is claimed to hold up to 40% of oils and is very easy to work with. Nice aesthetic as well  but I personally prefer Sepinov EMT 10. Regarding thickeners, they all can be mixed with carbomers if you want. Would you consider combining say Arlacel 165 with a polymeric emulsifier? It can be formulated the way it still feels like a gel but it’s safer.

[ngarayeva001]

That cap-5 blend is the same as cap-2 except for potassium sorbate (which is quite water soluble). The reason they say not to use it in lipstick is solubility not the harmfulness of any sort. They still say it’s dispersible. So, you should try to see whether it separates or not.

[ngarayeva001]

I don’t preserve my lipsticks. The reason for that, it’s an anhydrous product and it will be ok for a couple of months. I am not saying that lipsticks don’t need to be preserved but I am still learning and throw away most of the prototypes within a month. I have similar approach to all products. I use the cheapest and the easiest to get preservatives when the formula is under development.

[ngarayeva001]

From a very practical point of view, if this lipstick is just for you these bubbles have no effect on the quality and the performance provided that your formula is good. But you won’t be able to mold it properly (use lipbalm tube) and you won’t be able to give it to someone as a gift.

[ngarayeva001]

Well bubbles are ‘normal’ but ‘not desirable for a consumer’. Pigments are challenging to work with. They either have to be coated and predisperced (read all hard job is done for you) or they are pain in the neck. Have a look at tkb trading and making cosmetics. They have predispersed TiO2. To be honest I gave up on the dry ones.

[ngarayeva001]

I have a similar machine but 100w. I like it but it cannot mix 20lt (unless it’s as viscous as water). It’s pretty good with 500gr of viscous cream (nivea type) or 800gr of lighter lotion. It’s great value for money and is sold much cheaper on Amazon UK (£85-90), but it’s important to have right expectations.

[ngarayeva001]

“ I think glucoside is making it sticky but its required to solubise essential oil”
Many members of this forum complained that glucosides are sticky, so you are probably right that it’s the glucoside that makes it sticky. What I find curious, is the second part of this statement “required to solubilise essential oil”. What ingredient do you think is doing the job of cleaning in this formula if the glucoside is a solubiliser?

[ngarayeva001]

“Good for them”.. I received some dimethiconol in cyclopentasiloxane this weekend and nothing has ever been as  “good” for my hair as that blend in my life :smiley: 
I can tell you what is bad for hair -Glucosides. Because they make rat nests in long hair. Sounds pretty bad to me. I guess you can make it better if mix glycosides with hydroxysultaine and SCI but why bother?

[ngarayeva001]

Same happens to me every time when I try to mix dry pigments (FD&C, D&C, TiO2 doesn’t matter coated or not, Iron oxides) with Octyldodecanol also with a spatula. All my lipsticks look like wispa chocolate bar. It would be great to know why it happens and whether anything can be don to fix it.

[ngarayeva001]

Your question isn’t clear at all

[ngarayeva001]

I personally don’t like soap. I stopped using it probably 15 years ago. I would be happy to find an evidence that soap has negative impact on skin to substantiate my bias but I couldn’t find anything (I really tried). I however know cases when people had skin irritation caused by shaving creams based on modern surfactants (probably because of preservatives not SLES) and could only get rid of it after changing that to classic NaOH/KOH shaving soap (that is not preserved). So, the soap isn’t bad because it’s objectively harmful, it’s bad because it’s not aesthetically pleasing.

[ngarayeva001]

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/5834/hair-thermal-protection#latest

[ngarayeva001]

Actually the best inspiration is to see what other successful brands do. Go to thebodyshop’s website and check their body butters. You don’t have to copy what they do but you can get inspired and make your own.

[ngarayeva001]

Actually I just checked, there are many salons in London who are offering ‘keratin treatment’. I guess it’s just a buzzword (as we see very often in cosmetics world). Maybe they just use an alkaline relaxer as the one above?