ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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You can try a mixture of candelilla and beeswax. 10% to begin with.
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Can someone with a deeper understanding of chemistry behind it contribute please?
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Well you need to add some sort of wax to make it hard. It will be gelly and runny otherwise.
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pka of the glycolic acid is 3.87. I you increase pH higher than this value it won’t be very effective.
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Re: dimethicone, I don’t think you will notice much difference. But in theory higher cst is more occlusive, so 200/350.
Stearic Acid and Cetyl Alcohol - it’s a matter of taste. I find stearic acid too draggy and don’t like adding it to my moisturisers. I know people who think it’s “creamy” and gives nice texture. I don’t see a reason why it should create any stability challenges, but depends on the formula. Cetyl Alcohol is more smooth than cetearyl alcohol. It’s the least draggy fatty alcohol I tried, so usually it’a my thickener of choice. You will have to experiment with all of them and decide which one you like the best. You can also combine them in one formula.
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You are welcome @Jamjar. Tocopheryl acetate is an active ingredient (it supposed to have skin benefits, but there is not much scientific proof for that, so it’s a “claim” ingredient) and doesn’t work as an antioxidant for oils unfortunately, so you will have to wait for tocopherol. It doesn’t stop you from experimenting with the base. You will not notice differences in the texture after adding it.
Carbomers provide much better aesthetics than xanthan, so if you have that option, just use carbomer.
Dimethicone is a great ingredient, and you will only benefit from having it. I understand you are looking for commercial quantities, but if you want to get some to experiment with it (to see what it brings to your formula) I know many repackers around the world. If you let me know where you are based, I can advise where you might get a small amount.
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Something is wrong there. Waxes should thicken after an hour in the fridge. Post your formula.
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To have a long lasting effect on skin, you need an occlusive agent. As I can see mineral oil in your formula I assume you won’t mind using petrolatum and dimethicone as well (so nice to see someone who is making a real product not some “free of toxic chemicals” nonsense). Both are very cheap. You have good amount of glycerin for a long lasting cream for dry skin. My main suggestion to improve the texture is to swap Glyceryl Stearate SE to a blend of Glyceryl Stearate and PEG-100 Stearate that is known under different brand names (for example Arlacel 165). Glyceryl Stearate SE often responsible for a grainy texture.
Suggested change:
Water 68% Xanthan gum 0.20% Glycerin 5.0% Sunflower oil 8.0% Mineral oil 2.0% Shea Butter 0.5% Petrolatum 4.0% Dimeticone 2.0% Cetearyl Alcohol 4.0% Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate 4.0% Ceteareth 20 1.0% BHT 0.05% Tocopherol 0.10% Euxyl k320 1.0% I don’t think you need ceteareth 20% as Arlacel 165 seems sufficient to me. You can get rid of shea butter at all, or leave a tiny amount for claims.
You can use pretty much any dimethicone (I think 1000 cst should be the cheapest one).
I suggest adding antioxidants to prevent that sunflower oil from oxidation.
Small amount of xanthan will improve stability.
You should get nice and thick cream that lasts on skin, doesn’t soap (thank to dimethicone) and has reasonable stability. -
Just make sure it doesn’t separate. I find it very difficult to formulate cleansing oil without special surfactants. They look fine and then you notice separation line. I managed to get a mixture of Polysorbate 80 in c12-15 alkyl benzoate right. All other attempts separated sooner or later. I tried sorbitan oleate in almond oil and it created unwashable w/o emulsion.
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Haha Mark, your comments remind me unpopular opinion subreddit. And I am on the same page with you. Vaccinate your kids, don’t drink colloidal silver and don’t try to cure serious disease with bloody essential oils. Unfortunately I have an antivaxer relative (not so far) too. At least she’s not trying to impose it on others.
So, these are actually chemical terms then! Interesting! I was reading about hydrogenation process the other day (didn’t understand half of it unfortunately) and I noticed ‘cis’ fats. I knew about transfats before, but that ‘cis’ made me thinking whether these terms came from chemistry. -
Don’t you have a problem with washing it off? It’s a water in oil emulsion. It must he water resistant.
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You are welcome @MarkBroussard. This is the book I was referring to in case you would like to see more details:
Starting from page 271.
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Drinks silver water and an antivaxer. Unpopular opinion but I think this is the moment when government should intervene in the interest of children such people have.. and I am totally against large government. I hope she doesn’t insist on her family members drinking silver water..
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@Doreen, you are right I am obsessed with expensive skincare :smiley: The reason for that is the aesthetics. These brands have to justify the price tag and they really invest in the aesthetics of the product. Something that is being sold for £200+ can’t feel like veg oil with polawax and stearic acid. I reverse engineer these products to learn the trick of creating “the texture”
To be honest, “the secret” boils down to the right combination of polymeric emulsifiers, esters with different polarities (polar and medium in one product), (and petrolatum in many cases) and often silicone elastomers.
By the way I had a sample (I am not that crazy to buy it lol) of that platinum monster (by the way it has weird greish-bluish color not typical for skincare). It’s meh. La Prairie have products with much better texture. -
I am reading Handbook of Cosmetic Science and Technology, which is quite old (2001). It says that although the precise mechanism is unknown, the suspected mechanism is formation of larger and more stable micelles of surfactants (in the system containing several surfactants). They say although addition of amphoteric surfactants, demonstrate the most obvious result, non-ionic and even some anionic lead to a milder product. Since smaller micelles are more irritating, I guess that theory sounds reasonable.
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@TriciaLynne, good point. Acids increase photosensitivity. But AHAs are great and the problem can be solved with a sunscreen. The main issue here is that AHAs should sit on the surface. Applying them on damaged skin is a bad idea. And skin scratched with uneven sugar particles is damaged.
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Mixing physical and chemical exfoliators in one product is a bad idea. Not every skin will be able to tolerate that. Also, you won’t be able to incorporate AHAs to this formula. All AHAs I am aware of are watersoluble.
Just wondering, is that humblebee and me formula?
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The vehicle contained petrolatum. Exactly the study I was referring to. Glycerin and petrolatum is probably the best one can do to their skin. And although I really want to substantiate my positive bias about ceramides, even in case with my personal experience the results I noticed are most probably due to petrolatum which I add to all my skincare, including lipbalms.
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Can you share a link to your benchmark? Is it a paste or a liquid? I am not color cosmetic formulator but I made eyeliners a couple of times for my own use (mostly out of curiosity).
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@Spadirect, if you analise the most expensive moisturisers in the market you will notice that in most cases it’s combination of polymeric and conventional emulsifiers.
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I am not aware of any surfactants (except for soaps like sodium tallowate) that are not vegan.
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I am sure many heard about this magical product:
A very basic O/W emulsion made with rather cheap esters, emulsified with some seppic’s polymer (Either Sepinov EMT 10 or Simulgel NS). Generally speaking nothing special, but look what that pinch of silver and platinum (bold) did to the price tag 😉
Water, Butylene Glycol, C12-20 Acid PEG-8 Ester, Glycerin, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Squalane, Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, Myristyl Myristate, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Hydroxyethyl Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer, Mica, Potassium Cetyl Phosphate, Caprylyl Glycol, Tribehenin, Carbomer, Alcohol, Chondrus Crispus (Carrageenan), Hexylene Glycol, Polysorbate 60, Lecithin, Disodium EDTA, Sodium Hydroxide, Glycoproteins, Hesperidin, Glyceryl Acrylate/Acrylic Acid Copolymer, Ceramide 2, Carnosine, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polygonum Cuspidatum Root Extract, Biosaccharide Gum-1, PEG-8, Lactic Acid, Poloxamer 188, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Tocopherol, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Extract, Hematite Extract, Malachite Extract, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Silybum Marianum Fruit Extract, Citric Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Polysorbate 80, Platinum Powder, Silver Oxide, Fragrance, Benzyl Alcohol, Linalool, Hydroxycitronellal, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Amyl Cinnamal, Hexyl Cinnamal, Evernia Furfuracea (Treemoss) Extract, Geraniol, Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Phenoxyethanol, Titanium Dioxide, Iron Oxides -
” After wash they want a smooth feeling even without applying any oil and cream ” I heard that comment many times. I am not aware of a single commercial product that delivers on that “moisturising” claim and does actually cleanse to be honest.
When it comes to a face wash, it’s easy for me “Can I lather my entire face and open my eyes for more than 10 seconds?”. If the answer is yes I consider it mild enough for me.
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The way it feels, not too much. I would guess 10% all together at the max. And probably it’s more like 8% of the grapeseed oil and 2% all other together. Almond, Macadamia and Coconut are all quite greasy. I must still have it somewhere. I will have a closer look at it again and give you a better guess later today.
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Have a look at this one: https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/gc-crystal-gloss
INCI: Diisostearyl Malate, Bis-dioctadecylamide Dimer Dilinoleic Acid / ethylenediamine Copolymer.
I haven’t tried it myself (though it’s in my wishlist), but the suppliers says that depending on the oil used you can obtain a liquid product.