[ngarayeva001]

SLES/CAPB doesn’t need any thickeners but salt. Post the formula and I will let you know why it doesn’t thicken

[ngarayeva001]

It’s a matter of taste. You can try octyldodecanol or coco caprylate. As graillotion mentioned it’s better to combine emollients. D5 is an absolute winner for me if I am making something lightweight. I usually mix it with something like alkyl benzoate or IPM. 

Grapeseed oil is light but it’s shelf life is too short.

[ngarayeva001]

How much SLES and CAPB are you using? It’s either on a low end or the fragrance is the culprit. Is your product clear or opaque?

[ngarayeva001]

@Gordof, thank you very much! 

[ngarayeva001]

A less general question on the topic. Why cetiol ultimate (undecane, tridecane) which is a hydrocarbon has a short shelf life?

Is there a way to know how stable is a hydrocarbon (like double bonds for plant oils)?

[ngarayeva001]

I understand that both ethanol and isopropyl alcohol have much lower surface tension than water and break foam bubbles. But I only tried it with isopropyl alcohol because that’s what I have

[ngarayeva001]

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/AAG-FULLERHA-01.html?lang=default

crazy claims. I know it’s a DIY supplier but they copy claims and use guidelines from large suppliers. The price isn’t encouraging either.

[ngarayeva001]

@GeorgeBenson I get mine from glamour https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/carbopol-ultrez-30 

[ngarayeva001]

@Abdullah, I understand that since many people in this thread are professionals who were or currently are formulating for big brands and a need of being cost effective naturally leads to minimalism. I usually  have 14-16 ingredients in a moisturizer (I don’t count phenonip as many ingredients) because for me it’s a hobby, I enjoy exploring new materials and don’t consider costs and need of scaling up. For example in my ‘typical’ moisturizer, I would have a traditional emulsifier like GMS/PEG-100 Stearate (again count as one), aristoflex avc and ultrez 30, cetyl alcohol and some other thickener like cetyl palmitate, 2 humectants, one being glycerin and another something less sticky, I might stick niacinamide in it because niacinamide is not messing up with overall formula and I don’t have to rethink other ingredients, 3 emollients, petrolatum or softisan 649, dimethicone and some silicone elastomer. Add preservation system (preservative, chelator and antioxidant) and you get 17 ingredients. Half of it is technically not necessary. It’s possible to make a moisturizer with one main emulsifier, ultrez 30, cetyl alcohol, butylene glycol, 1 emollient (mineral oil),dimethicone , chelator, preservative and no antioxidant now is needed - 8 ingredients. 90% of consumers won’t be able to tell difference between my overcomplicated formula and the minimalistic one

[ngarayeva001]

Spray it with Isopropyl alcohol. If it’s a foam it will collapse.

[ngarayeva001]

I am a maximalist and not ashamed of it Although I don’t use any extracts and natural fluff but I add several rheology modifies and esters to achieve certain aesthetics that no one but me would even notice in a blind test. But hey, I am not a chemist

[ngarayeva001]

1) aqueous gel with electrolytes/low ph
2) hot process emulsion
3) cold process emulsion
it can be used as a main emulsifier or stabilizer in emulsions. 

[ngarayeva001]

I guess that if they are hydrogenated there should not be double bonds but it would be great to hear opinion of professionals.

[ngarayeva001]

@justaerin another store with a huge number of ingredients many of which are hard to find elsewhere is https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/
I ordered from them countless number of times (before brexit). I still buy from them but only when friends from Europe are visiting, so that they can bring the ingredients. Glamour doesn’t deliver to the US, but there’s many PO box companies in Europe too. Delivery within is around 15 euro.

[ngarayeva001]

Yeah 65 is way too much. I feel like I spend more on shipments than ingredients… I guess for those who live in Europe glamourcosmetics is the best option. They significantly increased shipment prices to the UK after brexit and I feel like it’s now easier for me to buy from Thailand than Italy, which sounds like a joke.

[ngarayeva001]

Pemulen EZ4U needs to be neutralized btw. Work with it as you would with carbomer. I think it does well with Sepinov EMT10 in terms of rheology. But again it’s highly subjective. I hate long flow, but there are many people who prefer that. Sepimax Zen can be used as a gel maker and it makes crystal clear gels (takes forever to hydrate). It can be used as a single emulsifier in cold process emulsion, or as a stabiliser in a hot process emulsion. And it’s probably the only product of this type that is actually somewhat strong electrolyte resistant. I can deal with 1.5% of sodium lactate. Although Zen isn’t my favorite polymeric emulsifier, it’s without a doubt the most functional and if I could only have one, it would be Zen.

[ngarayeva001]

@Syl I might be wrong but I think it should be similar to sodium cocoyl glutamate Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate - 250g
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FUI3MVU/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_FBVS164V6V2TY4PDEVCG

I bought from mystic moments many times. They sell through amazon.co.uk too. The price on amazon.com is higher though. It’s very mild and good for face wash. It’s extremely difficult to thicken. I use it in water thin face wash made specifically for foaming pump.

[ngarayeva001]

The ingredient is in the freezer . Regarding product stability, you add BHA and BHT and put the product in a non transparent airless pump. It oxidises, but slower.

[ngarayeva001]

It is very pricy but in case you want to have an option

https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/en/anti-wrinkle/9221-retinol.html

I keep mine in the freezer.

[ngarayeva001]

Camel said:

After experimenting with several different emulsifiers, emollients, and ratios over the past few weeks, I think I finally found a combination I like for my face cream.

Would anyone care to offer some feedback? What would you change? What would you add or remove? Constructive criticism is very much welcome; I am not a professional and this is for personal use only. 

Everything is heated in one phase (except the EL40 which is added at cool-down per seller’s recommendation) and then stirred at low-shear until room temperature.

Thinking to sub the EL40 for Dimethicone 350 as I haven’t really noticed a difference in my samples…

pH: 4.4

You have a bit of a contradicting approach here. On one hand, you have a lot of glycerin and a lot of petrolatum that assume extremely dry skin. On the other hand, you have an elastomer for blurring, niacinamide and SA which are usually used for oilier skin. 

What is your skin like? What is your goal?

I absolutely love petrolatum, but you need to know “how to cook with it” and why are you using it. 

Other comments: you don’t have anything there that can oxidise. That tocopherol isn’t needed. Your preservative is too weak. It is called broad spectrum but it’s shit for mould and yeast. Right now however it might be okayish because you have 10% of glycerin which somewhat reduces water activity. I would still replace it with phenonip if you don’t mind synthetics.
In terms of aesthetics.. your stabilisers/thickeners are not very pleasing. It’s purely subjective. But if you don’t mind synthetics replace that HEC with some polymeric emulsifier/stabiliser. Sepimax Zen would work with SA. Sepinov EMT10 or Sepigel 305 probably would be good too if you don’t increase that SA.

[ngarayeva001]

grapefruit22 said:

@Abdullah, I have never found a study confirming its effectiveness. Personally, I had some problems with acne discoloration, a dermatologist advised me to use azelaic acid. Contrary to many other products, I saw a difference after using it (after a few weeks), but I didn’t like the tingling sensation after each use. I had a 20% ointment bought at a pharmacy and it was also quite greasy. The Ordinary and Paula’s Choice have products with azelaic acid that are probably more convenient to use, but I have never tried them. I liked the glycolic acid peels the most, you don’t have to struggle with ointments every day, and you should see at least a small difference after one treatment. Both ingredients are recommended for the treatment of melasma. 10% lactic acid may help, but it seems too weak.

I tried the ordinary’s Azelaic acid. It’s 10% and wasn’t very effective for me (acne). It seems like over the counter anti-acne azelaic acid is made at 20% for a reason.

If you are in the UK or can order from the UK https://www.dermatica.co.uk/landing/azelaic-acid?focus=&adgroupid=118474980951&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Azelaic%20Acid%20OTC%20-%20Shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0umSBhDrARIsAH7FCodzPOXiJA3gScn574P1W4Qs0It5amJMabU9zqDu85ebWieLC5JJDNkaAi7dEALw_wcB

This one has a pleasant texture unlike skinoren and other OTCs bought in pharmacies. 

[ngarayeva001]

Sun! Those are called age spots but they are sunspots. Sunscreen, sunscreen and sunscreen again.

If she is prone to acne those might also be post-inflammatory pigmentation spots. Maybe she should consider retinol or prescription tretinoin (plus sunscreen). That might be killing two birds with one stone because retinoids are generally helpful with acne and somewhat reduce sun damage. And SPF 50 applied and reapplied very generously.

[ngarayeva001]

Guys, I really wanted to make it a post but it won’t be appropriate I guess. I found a supplier in Thailand. They sell ingredients that are impossible to find anywhere else at DIY amounts. I already ordered from them and they delivered to London for £36 (took only 6 days). They provide all documentation and the packaging is not bad (DIY suppliers are often horrible with packaging). I am not affiliated with them in any shape or form but I always struggle with finding synthetic ingredients (I know they all are synthetic, I am referring to PEGs, Silicones and other “free-from” ingredients) and I tried them, so they are reliable.

https://myskinrecipes.com/ 

I know cheesy name. They don’t have MOQ, accept Paypal and deliver quickly. They have PEG-10 Dimethicone and other W/Si emulsifiers, Esters that I couldn’t find anywhere else, Hydrocarbons and silicones that I haven’t seen anywhere else (stearyl dimethicone). They have pure amodimethicone (not an emulsion but an oil-soluble). They have Isoxehadecane and even oil soluble dyes. Enjoy!

[ngarayeva001]

All my favourite polymeric emulsifiers are listed already but there is also a less known one from Lubrizol https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/77/722072/Pemulen-EZ-4U-polymer

This monster can emulsify 20% of oil at 0.2%! I didn’t believe it until  I tried (they say 50%, I only tried 20 so can’t comment about more, but it’s already impressive for 0.2%).

It’s jiggly-wiggly like sepimax zen and would benefit from mixing it with something with a longer flow. Not electrolyte tolerant but definitely worth having in your lab. It is sold by Trulux in Australia and under a different name here https://lotioncrafter.com/collections/emulsifiers/products/polymulse-polymeric-emulsifier

But Aristoflex AVC was and stays my absolute favourite for its elegance.

[ngarayeva001]

Hello there! I am also in west london I don’t need any of the ones you listed but maybe we can share/exchange in future:) I often buy too much and get sad when ingredients expire unused