ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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To add to the above, I attempted to reverse engineer a very similar korean balm (banila clean it zero) multiple times with almost identical LOI. I have all ingredients but PEG-10 mentioned above and apparently it’s the most important ingredient in this product. I would also appreciate if anyone knows a good replacement for it because I don’t believe it can be found at repackers marker.
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Speaking about safety, although I doubt that under vitamin A the creator of this thread means tretinoin but there are many forms of vitamin A that are very potent ingredients and should be formulated in line with safety requirements. As little as 1% of pure retinol can burn your face so much you wouldn’t want to leave your house for a couple of days.
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Yes but there are some fancy and extremely overpriced oil soluble versions like tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate so I asked what derivative. It was my understanding that all forms of vitamin B though are watersoluble.
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I read that parabens are inactivated by highly ethoxylated compounds which include Polysorbates. On the other hand there’s plenty of commercial products with ethoxylated ingredients preserved with parabens, so I guess it’s as always, hard to tell without PET. DMDM sounds as an interesting preservative and it will be my next purchase. The blend of several parabens and phenoxyethanol you referred to is probably phenonip. I use it in foundations because it tolerates some heating unlike most preservatives I have.
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B what? What derivative of vitamin c? Give the INCIs of the ingredients that you want to add to oil. You can’t just dump any vitamins in oil and expect it to work and to be safe, and it’s is not even about preservation.
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That might be just my experience but Polysorbate 20 in particular causes loss of viscosity. PEG_40 HCO might be a slightly better option.
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CAPB has salt and it’s a great thickener for traditional surfactants systems. Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate has even more salt and if you would use it with SLES you probably won’t need any extra salt to thicken the product.
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Yes, and saying that an ingredient is ‘USP’ or ‘BP’ is also not correct labeling. It’s very similar to a situation with ubiquinone in nivea moisturizers. Ubiquinone will color lotion even at 0.2%, I don’t even know how much they use to have that lotion paper white.
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Germaben II is not made for oil based products. It can only deal with emulsions that have less than 25% oils. I use different preservatives for different products: germaben goes to all toners, serums, gels, and low oil phase lotions (it’s very watersoluble actually); germall goes to all surfactants because it has no impact on viscosity; phenonip goes to water in oil and water in silicone (not like I can create a stable w/o but working hard on it), the reason being they are hard to preserve (especially the ones with pigments) and due to oil being external phase adding preservative after emulsification isn’t effective, phenonip tolerates some heating. And I also have a special class of products: experiments that I won’t keep longer than a week, anhydrous products, body scrubs that I will use up within 2 months (anything that doesn’t need much preservation), for these I use euxyl pe9010, because it’s cheap and easy to find in the UK. Phenoxy isn’t very watersoluble, I don’t like the smell, it visibly failed on mold for me once.
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I am a hobbyist and running my products through proper PET is not feasible so I mitigate this through using EDTA and reliable ‘synthetic’ preservatives, so the more options I have the better. There’s also phenonip but I really dislike phenoxy.
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@Perry, that’s why I got confused. I don’t understand why one ingredient has that warning and another doesn’t. I guessed that maybe DMDM is more potent and releases more formaldehyde. I am quite immune to chemophobia and usually it has an opposite effect on me. When I see fear mongering I think ‘must be a good ingredient, need to look into it’. In this case I hesitated because wanted to do some reading and it’s not typical for a supplier to say this: https://www.makingcosmetics.com/DMDM-Hydantoin_p_653.html
please scroll down the page for the warning.https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Paraben-DU_p_242.html
No warning here. It’s germaben II, which has diazolidinyl urea
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@Cst4Ms4Tmps4, thank you. Sounds like germaben ii. It’s a nice blend of parabens and a formaldehyde releaser. Great for transparent products but probably will fail if you add petals
I guess I am then being paid by dow corning then. Can’t have enough of silicones. So, DMDM is my next purchase then. -
Thank you very much @Perry. I have two favorites (Germall and Germaben II) and curious to explore. For some reason DMDM has this weird disclaimer for California customers on it’s cancerogenity (makingcosmetics). Same on lotioncrafter. There is no such a disclaimer for Germall. Usually these suppliers are not spreading chemophobic messages because they sell ‘synthetics’. I consider myself a ‘traditional’ formulator with a strong preference for synthetic materials but seeing that message stopped me from buying it. I decided to do some research before purchasing it and never had time (it’s very time consuming, just try to google it, you will have to go through enormous amounts of chemophobia until you get to a reliable source).
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It’s a wash off product. Whatever you add there won’t have any benefit as it goes down the drain (there are some exceptions as polyquats). With surfactants what you generally want to do is to make them mild which is achieved through choosing right materials.
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Let me guess.. you want to understand how to make transparent soap? I am not a soaper but as far as I understand it is a regular hot process alkaline soap with zero superfat level and it also has a lot of glycerin and alcohol. And they obviously added some vegetation in it to make it look fancy. Google ‘hot process glycerin soap’
having said that I cannot help myself not to add that syndets are much better than any soap, even a fancy one. -
Vitamins can be watersoluble and oil soluble. It depends on what exactly you want to add.
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You don’t have a primary emulsifier. Decyl Glycoside is used at a low % (which you did) to improve foam, CAPM is amphoteric surfactant used to promote mildness, you need a primary non-ionic or anionic emulsifier. If you want it to be “natural” coco-glucoside will work. Argan oil doesn’t do anything but it should be ok to add at 0.1% for claims.
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@Cst4Ms4Tmps4, I have been looking at DMDM Hydratoin for a while.. do you know whether it has any advantages compared to Germall Plus? Germall failed me recently, which probably was my fault, as no one asked me to add bug food to my facewash. Is it easy to formulate with? What I mean by that is whether it’s easy to incorporate to a formula, whether it changes the viscosity of the final product etc.
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Not as good as Banila for two reasons, 1) banila melts in hands and turns into liquid oil very quickly and this one takes some time (or pretty warm hands);
2) Banila removes not only water-resistant but waterproof makeup and this one struggles with waterproof.
I think the potential reasons are: 1)PEG-10 emulsifier is really important 2) my polyethylene has a too high melting point, but I don’t know where to get another. This formula is quite useable to be honest, I am just extremely demanding when it comes to reverse engineering. I won’t consider my product a success unless I can’t tell a difference in a blind test. -
No guys, it’s an ester INCI: Butylene glycol dicaprylate/dicaprate
It has medium polarity and works well but you can replace it with any medium polarity ester. -
I run a couple of experiments after our conversation above and managed to make something that works ok, but it’s not as good as banila unfortunately.
INCI % Alkyl Benzoate 30.00% Butylene glycol D/D (ester) 15.00% Mineral Oil 15.00% Polysorbate 80 5.00% Cithrol GTIS 10 10.00% PEG-6 caprylic/capryc glycerides 10.00% Polyethylene 15.00% PEG-6 is also sold on glamourcosmetics. This is useful material for making micellar water and face washes. It’a a non-ionic emulsifier.
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I recall it’s more alkaline than human. Swiftcraftymonkey has an article about pet formulations. Might be worth it to have a look.
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Weight. Always weight. I run another test with different proportions yesterday. With Polysorbate 80. It works but it’s not banila..
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Thank you @Perry. I would be happy if it’s just mold. I was topping up this bottle many times instead of sterilising it properly. I have much lower standards when the product is for me rather than for someone else. I don’t sell any of my products but I make them for friends and family. This foam is particularly popular so I was worried. One of my friends has leftovers of that foam (same formula minus wheat protein) that I gave her 8 months ago. I also found the one with proteins made in July. All crystal clear. I am very careful with what I give to others. I make acid peels, retinol moisturizer, hydroquinone spot treatment for myself but won’t give it to anyone else. Same goes with water in oil products. Have been working on foundations for a while but they separate. So if it’s just mold and there’s nothing obviously wrong with the formula, it’s good. I need to invest in microbial plates for home use.
P.S. Jurassic Park was my favorite movie when I was a kid -
They stretch. It happened today, this bottle sits in my bathroom and I use it twice a day. It was ok in the morning. There were no significant changes of temperature.