ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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The best thing to do to understand the difference is to make the same base with say 3% of each thickener (as minimalistic as possible: 5% of mineral oil, 3% of GMS/PEG100 stearate, 3% of a thickener, water qs) and compare. Myristyl Myristate is nice but you would need twice as much of it comparing to cetearyl to get the same viscosity and overall rheology is different (more like beeswax). Behenyl feels dryer and more powdery but depending on other ingredients you can create truly beautiful product with it. I like all of them but for different products.
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Cetearyl alcohol is not my favourite, but if you can only get one, it’s the most versatile.
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I agree it will incorporate easily, but it might cause ph shift and hydrolysis. Unless you make tiny batches and use them up very quickly. It’s up to the formulator, I prefer not to take a risk with o/w. Another point, I don’t know if it’s me or anyone else noticed it, sodium lactate feels more moisturizing than urea. I compare 3% pf sodium lactate vs 5% of urea.
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@Pharma, the cream you mentioned is water in oil. This approach might be slightly problematic with o/w, which are the majority of moisturisers on the market.
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Everything they found is “as expected”. The only comment I would have on the article is that I can clearly see a false positive: “while being conservative was associated with the use of essential oils for spiritual enhancement”. There is an overlap of being conservative and other traits which lead to conclusion conservative => more likely to use EOs.
Other than that, totally agree and it’s not only essential oils. I wasted hours explaining to someone that those hundred dollar moisturisers aren’t worth the money. I made an exact copy of a luxury moisturiser that she couldn’t distinguish from the original, but she still buys those products and brags she got them on sales for an amount I am not even going to mention. Doesn’t like sulfates and uses a shampoo with SLS, the list goes on and on. And it’s an individual with good education, high IQ and a successful career, yet absolutely no scepticism when it comes to marketing. Any BS written on the label and published in some BS source like Guardian on topics like EOs or coronavirus, or peptides or useless food supplements would be accepted as truth. We think that there are no such people around us, but if you take a close look, they are everywhere. What I found shocking, some of them are very intelligent otherwise. -
@tinas, isn’t it cleanser? How is it going to draw moist out of your skin when you don’t even leave it on your skin? Having said that, sucragel is hard to process.
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It looks like I missed the party? Humblebeeandme measures essential oils in quote ‘blobs’ and suggests using a surfactant not intended for liquid product for use in shampoo. If someone is in a doubt she is not an appropriate source go to her blog and see how she makes a foundation and what insanity she suggests to use as a color blend. She’s a dilettante, full stop. I do not recommend anyone using that source to lean formulating unless you want to stay on her level make ‘concoctions’ and share ‘recipes’. @wannabe_chemist, next time you want to get an answer do tagging properly.
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Thank you @imosca. Although my chemistry isn’t on the level to understand dielectric constant but it’s very informative.
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Being devil’s advocate, Ignoring the fact it will destroy skin after several uses, with this much TEA, the pH is going to be around 12-ish I guess. Do viruses like such a pH at all?
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Leave aside it’s very hard even to find SLES
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Irrelevant for professionals who have access to materials, but can you imagine that on the DIY market sodium olefine sulfonate is three times cheaper than SLES? My body wash is sulfate free because it’s cheaper ????
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Repackagers often give silly names to their websites to appeal to their customer base.
One of my favourite suppliers from the UK is called the soap kitchen (kitchen…). Sounds not very serious but they have good prices and a nice variety of not so “natural” ingredients, including hard to find materials like Crothix and a lot of other ethoxylated materials. Another one from Italy is called “glamour cosmetics”. Sounds like some cheap makeup but they sell Croda’s materials, Dow Corning’s materials, Clariant you name it! A lot of very advanced ingredients such as HIPE w/si emulsifiers, “scary” parabens, a variety of silicones and other materials you would never expect to find on the DIY market.
I don’t care how “glamour” or “chakra” they are, as long as they sell Abil EM 90, and Ariftoflex AVC rather than “e-wax” and “steric” acid, I will buy from them. -
Unfortunately, DIY websites don’t share much info on how to formulate with an ingredient.
Speaking of how do you know whether it’s w/o or o/w, you can google it. Ulprospector (even the free version) is usually good at saying what kind of emulsifier it is. -
@Dtdang how did you measure the efficiency of this combo? Do you have a study to share with us?
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@wannabe_chemist, humblebeeandme is not a source I would advise anyone to follow.
Re: water in oil, trust me you need to master o/w first. W/O take a lot of knowledge and months (if not years) of practice.Let’s start from the beginning. Do you want to make a moisturiser for very dry skin? If this is what you are trying to achieve, there are plenty of good humectants and good occlusive materials that work pretty well. Don’t start with a problematic material that requires years of experience. You still can make a decent product that will do what you want and will be elegant upon application.
You need glycerin, sodium lactate (or sodium PCA or both), chelating agent (disodium EDTA) petrolatum, mineral oil, a good broad-spectrum preservative (germaben II is good), anhydrous lanolin, a decent emulsifier (GMS+PEG-100 stearate, Ceteareth 20), thickener (cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol) and some sort of stabiliser (Zen would work, but you can go for xanthan). -
It is a very bad idea to start with such a product. You need a proper buffer to lock down the pH. Or I read you can formulate it in w/o format not to worry about pH shift for urea. But you can’t start with w/o without experience with o/w.
Sepimax zen is a fantastic material in general but even this one might not be able to deal with urea. -
I agree it’s impossible for the format above, but maybe they will accept something like oil to emulsion cleanser. Cithrol 10 GTIS by Croda. Not going to foam thought.
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There are special materials by BASF that allow formulating a cleanser with a very high oil phase. Those require a special processing technique and would be expensive in general. What you listed above is not going to be stable and is impossible to thicken. Sarcosinate doesn’t tolerate oil. And no, this is impossible to thicken with salt.
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What do you expand them to do? If it’s brightening, neither works. If for claims, all work
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Totally agree with Belassi. This shampoo would be almost impossible to thicken, leaving aside the fact that it will create a rat nest in one’s hair.
If you want sulfate-free shampoo, go for Sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate (Bio Terge AS-40 liquid) + CAPB (at a higher % that you listed above) + something like Cocamide DEA for thickening.
Olefin Sulfonate is
1) Not “officially” a sulfate
2) Cheap
3) Effective
4) Lathers well
5) Relatively mild
6) Easy to work with.
There are plenty of other options such as sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, SLMI, SMCT, and their various combinations. -
You have too many active ingredients at very high concentrations. Select two main ingredients and add everything else at a very low %
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“Chemicals” aside, many people on this forum are professionals who provide services and charge fee for such advice. You can post a formula that doesn’t work the way you would like it to work and ask for a piece of advice. What you can’t expect is getting a ready formula especially with such an unclear intro.
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Although I don’t like soap and haven’t been using it for many years if I had a choice between washing my hair with soap (NaOH/KOH traditional soap) or a conditioner I would prefer soap. It would make hair look like a floor mop but at least it will be clean.
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“Washing” or shall I say not washing hair and scalp with a cationic emulsion leads to build-up of sebum, cationic compounds and silicones on hair and scalp. This is the reason why cationic surfactants is not a thing in shampoos. If the hair isn’t washed for too long it can lead to very negative consequences such as loss of elasticity, hair looking dull and can promote the growth of fungi (which is what, I suspect, happened to all those Deva Curl fans). I don’t understand how is this still a thing in the 21th century. I wouldn’t be surprised if we come back to good old masking body odours with perfume instead of washing with these trends.
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Have you tried cetearyl alcohol? They all reduce foaming the question is how much. I think the best idea would be to experiment with fatty acids and fatty alcohols that you don’t mind to have on the label and see which is the best. I use GMS in surfactant product I make and it does reduce foaming but still acceptable for me.