ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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Why do you need such a high oil phase if I may ask?
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You need stabilisers to hold it together. This product has too high internal phase. My point is, you either add a lot of thickeners (cetearyl alcohol etc) and gums and probably change your emulsification system to say GMS+ PEG100 stearate plus ceteareth 20/25 and end up with a thick butter or you need to get an emulsifier that is specifically designed for high internal phase o/w. I recall Alchemy should have something like this.
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Same way as you would use CAPB. It’s amphoteric
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Recent developments has shown that the consumer doesn’t know how to use soap.
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Just wondering whether adding something hygroscopic (propylene glycol) to the spray would make the situation any better. The logic being it should prolong contact with skin. Not going to make a sanitizer, just curious.
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Aristoflex AVC indeed can thicken hydroalcoholic gels. I tested it (out of curiosity) with 61%w/w ethanol and it gelled properly. The gel will be slightly cloudy because Aristoflex isn’t as clear as carbomers. It’s very sensitive to electrolytes.
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Hi guys, while two experts are here, may I ask you to advise some source (cosmetic formulation book, article etc) where I can find more on antioxidants? I find information here and there but I can’t find a comprehensive guidance on which one to use with which ingredients. I see BHT used for retinol, ferulic acid for LAA and sodium metabisulfite for hydroquinone but not being a chemist I don’t know whether there’s a logic behind it or it’s trial and error.
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So it’s not only SLES it’s Polysorbates and all PEGs?
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I understand your point @Herbnerd but often alcohol is supplied as %v/v. So if they use, say, 70% IPA which is supplied as 70%v/v it will only work is they use it almost neat. What I noticed people love adding unnecessary fluff like aloe and who knows what else “to make it theirs”. And btw another thing I noticed, most people can’t get their head around %. That’s why most of “recipes” are written in cups.. I saw a good article on that topic. Let me dig it out.
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No, there are different varieties. Some are more conditioning than others and some are more thickening than others. You would need to speak with the suppliers. Having said that, it’s a nice feature but I wouldn’t rely on thickening from PQ 10, because it’s derived from HEC which is a gum. So the thickening effect would be similar to what you get from gums, which I personally find not very pleasant. It’s a nice addition when you use hard to thicken surfactants, but I wouldn’t rely on it alone.
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There are plenty of discussions on this forum on this topic, run the search. The answer is no, oils are added to shampoos for marketing claims.
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@Agate, I agree censoring is evil. This situation is just frustrating. How many people would bother reading WHO recommendations? Not many I guess, but much more would use ready formula. People enjoy cooking and there are much more chances that someone repeats it when it’s written in a format “1 cup of alcohol, 2 cups of aloe etc”. And some of them would think, “I don’t have alcohol, I will replace it with vodka, it has alcohol too”. So even if the DIY formula measured in cups was written correctly and has 60% v/v of alcohol, it doesn’t mean that people will reproduce it right.
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Here is an example. https://formulabotanica.com/natural-hand-sanitiser/
They put together a “natural” sanitiser that kills bacteria so well that it needs a preservative itself. Great. They also included this disclaimer:
“Disclaimer: in some parts of the world, hand sanitisers are viewed as pharmaceutical / medicinal products. The formulation provided in this blog post is for home-use only and has not been tested for efficacy”.An individual from Cypris in one of their FB groups said that it’s their “best seller”. They make a sanitiser based on that formula and sell it to the public, marketing it as safe and natural. What bugs me the most in this story, this Formula Botanica isn’t some DIY blog with 3.5 subscribers. I was shocked to see an article on them in the April edition of Personal Care Magazine within the In-Cosmetics Global section (page 18 if anyone is interested). A reputable professional magazine writes about them, and a serious professional event partners with them. I think it’s outrageous.
By the way, I have no interest and completely independent here. I don’t do workshops, I don’t take clients, I don’t sell my formulas. And although I have 96% ethanol, understand the difference between %v/v and %w/w, know the specific gravity of ethanol, can do the calculations and bothered to read WHO recommendation, I wouldn’t give a sanitiser that I made to my neighbour or to a friend. It should be left to professionals.
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@Pharma, I have exactly the same problem with it! If people want to make a sanitiser that doesn’t work and get sick, it’s their choice. The problems start when then persuade others to do it.
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Post the formula
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I like Polyquaternium-10 but you need to keep in mind that those are like carbomers. Same INCI but the material might vary significantly! I used to have one that I used at 1% without any issues, and then I bought from another supplier and it behaves like xanthan gum (0.3% is a lot). Agree, there is additional benefit in using PQ 10 in products with hard to thicken surfactants.
I discovered Quaternium 80 recently. It’s pretty strong and it’s a silicone! -
I have not worked with ALS and can’t comment on it, but Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate is a great surfactant and there is absolutely no need for it to be above 6. A useful chart: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-cByGBHHiw/
Olefin sulfonate is a great surfactant too, but sarcosinate is milder. Olefin Sulfonate lathers better. -
Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate is similar to SCI in mildness and performance but is water-soluble. SCI is only good for syndets.
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Oils can be heated in general. It’s not that you are doing anything wrong, but it’s whipped butter. It will be greasy. You can make an o/w lotion that will be less greasy, but it’s a completely different thing.
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And if you want to stay on a “natural” side, there are materials like gluconolactone that are certified by some bodies. I am not sure if it’s as effective as EDTA though.
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Disodium EDTA is chelator that binds metals. Some would argue that if you use deionized water you don’t need it. I would say it’s a preservative booster. I use 0.1-0.2% in all of my formulas (Tetrasodium EDTA in transparent products)
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Hi @Perry, may I ask you to explain why electrolyte tolerant gel makers won’t release alcohol, please? How does that mechanism work?
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Siligel is not completely transparent. The product will be cloudy and will have unpleasant texture compared to crystal clear and fluffy carbomer gels. Would it work? Probably yes but would customers want it?
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This question has no answer. First of all most of the products that claim to work don’t. Human beings are known to enjoy placebo effect too much. Especially if they paid a lot. Second I dare those who thinks it’s a normal practice exceeding retinol over the recommended amount of 1% and see their face falling off.
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See above about the formula but in very very general terms when it comes to Hydroquinone: a combination of sodium sulfite and sodium metabisulfite plus passivate the steel. It’s a crucial step.