ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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We almost have sun in the UK unfortunately. Probably that’s why people react like this when they see sun. I have been here for 5 years and still struggling with my mood in November. Having said that, I am using sunscreen even in winter. I prefer mineral because as per my understanding it’s acting as a screen and provided that I won’t rub my face (yes that’s unlikely) I don’t need to reapply it (at least i winter).
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Btw, it’s impossible to persuade people that sun is bad for them. Every single time sun shows up in London you can see crowds of Fitzpatrick I and II type skin people with different level of sun burns (as red as a lobster) and parks are packed with sun bathing people (even when it’s cold).
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There is a huge variety of sunscreens in the UK. You just need to check in pharmacy such as boots. One caveat they all are non mineral. I have to order mineral sunscreen online because it’s impossible to find that in a store. I lived in the US for several years. Didn’t have a problem finding spf 50 either and it was much easier to find mineral sunscreen in the US because they have only two allowed UVA blockers one of them being ZnO. Again not in a store specializing on makeup and other cosmetics but in pharmacies like Duane Read or CVS.
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You have only benzyl alcohol as a preservative. It’s not sufficient on its own. You need a broad spectrum preservative (which is usually a blend of several preservatives) that covers gram-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, yeast and mould. Short answer is phenonip right answer is that preservation is a huge topic and there’s no one size fits all. You also need a chelator, as it aids the preservative in killing bacteria (somehow affects bacterial membranes, I am not good at microbiology). And speaking of antioxidants, tocopherol isn’t advised to be used above 0.5%. Some sources even say 0.1%.
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@vhogiono, I agree with @Pattsi, stearic acid and beeswax give dull finish and also make product draggy. It’s not always the case of course and I am sure it’s possible to formulate a good product with above mentioned ingredients, but my formulator’s intuition tells me that in this case you will be better off without it. And a touch of polymeric emulsifier (sepigel or another one) never hurts.
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@Pattsi, although I am no fan of the idea of “natural” formulations, there are standards such as Wholefoods and Ecocert. One can make an Ecocert compliant product and yet make it safe and stable. Formula Botanica is not formulating in accordance with good practices. They are good at marketing and made people believe that they are a legitimate source, which they are not. I have nothing to do with them as I have been I preferring synthetics from the day I started formulating. The only reason I get into this conversation is that I that there are many inexperienced people reading this forum and it is important to flag it for their benefit.
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Try the following: remove stearic acid, beeswax, DPG, lecithin. Reduce 165 to 4% (you simply don’t need that much with your oilphase). Up cetearyl alcohol to 4%. Replace soybean oil with Alkyl Benzoate. Probably up Dimethicone to 1.5%. Reduce tocopherol to 0.2%, you don’t need that much especially if you remove soybean oil. The above changes should improve texture.
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There are so many issues here besides soaping. Preservation system isn’t adequate. Emulsification system non existent pretty much. GMS isn’t an emulsifier on its own. Too much of tocopherol.
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https://incidecoder.com/products/sisley-black-rose-skin-infusion-cream
https://incidecoder.com/products/khiels-creamy-eye-treatment-with-avocado
https://incidecoder.com/products/bioderma-abcderm-peri-oral
Several commercial W/O as an example. All have certain things in common: W/O emulsifier high up in the LOI, oil phase stabilisers and lack of common water phase stabilizers that you would expect to see otherwise (like xanthan or carbomer), presence of a salt somewhere around 1% line. If not a sunscreen and properly formulated, I wouldn’t expect seeing high polarity esters high up in the ingredients list. -
Thank you @Microformulation. This forum is very dear to my heart. I learnt so much here from your comments and comments of many others and I don’t want it to be turned to ‘mommy lotion making blog’. There are plenty of those on already.
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@Haloul, this isn’t a place to preach about formula botanica. This a forum for professional chemists and those who are willing to follow scientific method. These people you mentioned can’t formulate and spread chemophobia and utter nonsense. They literally suggested to ‘infuse’ essential oils to water and filter it in several days.
So, I would like to add another common beginner’s mistake: not checking sources. -
Agree with @jemolian on aristoflex and sodium carbomer. I Use this combination a lot and it has never caused any problem. But I suspect it’s the ingredients in the waterphase. I would suggest doing a semi- knockout experiment and removing: hyaluronic acid, panthenol, niacinamide and allantoin. I am pretty sure that will solve the problem. Then start reintroducing them back starting with niacinamide. Btw I think that 2% of panthenol is a bad idea even if it doesn’t cause issues. It’s sticky and doesn’t add benefits.
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@Bill_Toge, may I ask why being in emulsion makes it useless? I often notice it in commercial products and I feel it adds slip during washing, although I totally understand that anecdotal evidence isn’t an evidence.
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One of the main give aways is salt. If you see sodium chloride, magnesium sulfate or zinc sulfate it’s most probably w/o. Salt is crucial for w/o stability.
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It might be unpopular opinion but I would like to question the very idea of clay masks. I know many people like them, but the only thing clay does is absorbs excess oils. Isn’t it easier just to use a paper napkin or wash the face? Majority of masks are useless. The rare exception might be acid peels in mask format.
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@Graillotion, yes I have been there with cherry seed oil, peach kernel oil and whatever fancy sounding nonsense oil I could find too. Needless to say these all oxidised in several months.
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@”Dr Catherine Pratt”, D4, D5 and D6 are not allowed in wash-off products in EU. So market should be taken into account.
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Is it pure amodimethicone not in an emulsion? Emulsified versions are usually used in shampoos. Like this one https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare/Detail/1021/42597/SilCare-Silicone-SEA
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I would say, if you are not planning to run stability test and cost isn’t an issue pair it.
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Phenonip can be a good option. It’s a blend of Phenoxyethanol and several parabens. Easy to work with, tolerates heating (and actually prefers it to reduce partition) works in many types of formulas (although I don’t like it where transparency is important; micellar waters, serums etc).
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Re PE9010, I wouldn’t use it in a formula where transparency is important. In theory, if you premix it in propylene glycol it should be clear but I don’t think it performs well in transparent formulas. Also, yes, the supplier claims it’s broad-spectrum, maybe it is, but it’s a weak preservative. It might work in a commercial set up with good quality water, clean ingredients and access to a lab to run all necessary tests but it’s a bad option for products made at home. Especially in a challenging formula with hydrosols and plant extracts.
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Facts:
- polysorbate 20 isn’t designed to solubilise a small amount of water in oil it is designed to solubilise a small amount of oil in water. Lecithin might work.
- commercial body oils with water-soluble ingredients and no emulsifiers are either wrongly labelled or have such a negligible amount of water that it can be ignored.Personal opinions:
- hair doesn’t benefit from applying oils. hair likes silicones or maybe super light esters. Most of those commercial hair oils with “organic argan oil” are 95% silicones and 5% claim ingredients (although I am probably being generous with 5%)
- even if we assume hair benefits from oil, glycerin in this type of formula won’t add anything noticeable.
- body oil either should be made from very light esters with dry feel (IPM, coco caprylate etc), or it will feel greasy and rather unpleasant. -
There are plenty of options from bamboo powder to pumice
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Remove castor oil completely, replace polysorbate 20 with polysorbate 80 and up it to 10%. Castor oil is used in lip care a lot. One of the reasons is that it has quite a unique fatty acids composition and leaves a barrier (I don’t want to use a word film because it would be wrong, but it is kind of a film) on the skin. What is good for a lip balm isn’t good for a rinse-off product. You also don’t have enough surfactants, polysorbate 20 is great for micellar waters not for oil cleansers and it’s definitely not sufficient at 2%. Ideally, replace all emulsifiers with Cithrol 10GTIS if you have it. If not, poly 80 and ceteareth 20 will do.
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I don’t think you can compare it with polymethylsilsesquioxane, those are very different.