ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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We clearly need a “like” button here :smiley:
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@Doreen I mentioned it above but it’s worth repeating. Ceramides kill the viscosity when added to the ready emulsion. They tolerate up to 80C, so should be added to the water phase.
What’s the deal with the fridge though? Suppliers send it wrapped in ice and say that ceramides should be stored in the fridge. -
@Belassi I see. I prefer polymers to conventional thickeners
for emulsions, and electrolytes compromise the texture. I am sure that someone
with more experience can overcome this issue easily. I do have a couple of electrolyte
resistant polymers but those are not my favourite.@@Microformulation , may I ask what type of Carbomer and neutralizer did you use? I used Carbomer 940 and it took me too much of TEA (slightly more than 1%) to
neutralise it with the presence of aloe powder (0.1% of 200x). I am not too
persuaded that aloe offers any significant benefits, but I want to
practice to work with formulas containing electrolytes. -
@Sibech visibility of pores is reduced by a foundation and/or a powder. Good quality foundation doesn’t visibly clog pores. This is not the case with blushers. They visibly stay in pores (and have to be extracted). The ‘red’ ones are more ‘guilty’ in doing it than other colors (now I know why). Interestingly enough this effect is less obvious with creamy products. I suspect it has something to do with the presence of silicones. Again I am talking about visible effects and customer (not only me) experience.
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@Belassi what gel maker do you use? I tried it with carbomer. Took me too much of TEA to neutralize it. It also thinned up my formula with Sepinov EMT. I used .1% of that 200x aloe powder.
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As per my experience aloe messes up with the viscosity. It contains electrolytes (aka salts) and compromises efficacy of some rheology modifiers. So, I wouldn’t recommend adding aloe, especially in such concentration. If you want to add it for claims, you can add some tiny amount (0.1% or even less). It doesn’t add much to the performance anyway.
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I know a good supplier of cosmetic bases for a small business in the UK. Where are you located?
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I can say as a consumer, that absolutely all blushers, from drug store to the most luxury high end, do visibly clog pores.
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@Belassi that suggests that you didn’t do your research right 😉
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Please note, those are thickeners (for lotions and surfactant systems) and gel makers for an aqueous solutions, not emulsifiers. There is also a different class of gel forming polymers that act as emulsifiers and can be used for O/W systems but those are more more expensive.
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@sven
1) INCI: Acrylates C10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer. Very commonly used one. Pleasant application. I would recommend makingcosmetics, because it’s very high quality and self wetting. They call it Gel Maker Powder. It needs to be neutralised.
2) INCI: Polyacrylate crosspolymer-6. Tolerates high concentration of electrolytes and extremely low pH (the supplier says 2 but it forms a gel even in a pH closer to 1, as per my experience). Less pleasant application than the 1st one. No neutralisation, but needs to be left overnight to hydrate. Doesn’t like high speed mixing (it’s not actually required). Sold under brand name Gel Maker pH by makingcosmetics or, Sepimax Zen by Seppic.
3) INCI: Sodium Carbomer. Preneutralised carbomer. No neutralisation is needed, provides better control of visosity as you can add it to the ready product.
And of course you can just buy a regular carbomer that needs neutralisation. I would recommend to look up by INCI to find the cheapest option in your region. -
Again, provide more details. What is the list of ingredients, what performance you would like to achieve, why is it important for a product to be a “gel” not a “liquid” etc.
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Well, gels have different viscosity. You can’t spray a viscous gel, so maybe you can just use just a little of gel maker?
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Yes, it is a great ingredient (it’s “natural” occuring in skin, one of the best humectants etc) but too expensive to use it as a gel maker. Again there are a lot of cheaper options, depending on what are you looking for. By the way, have you considered “syntetic” gel makers? They offer better performance than “natural” gums. I have an experence with a couple of them and can give you the list of my favorite and explain the difference.
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If it’s a mist it should be “like water” in a bottle, so it doesn’t have to turn into water when it’s sprayed.
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@Belassi, every time I see xantham as the only thickener I think of DIY youtube videos
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@AVisotsky, the formula you brough up above is, let me put it this way, not very typical. I have not seen decyl glucoside as the primary surfactant (maybe in some non-rinse make up remover?). It is normally added at a lower concentration to boost the foam (like 3%). It tends to decrease viscosity of the final product, etc. If you want a mild product follow the advice of Microformulation. Get a product with an amphoteric surfactant https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Coco-Betaine_p_273.html as a primary surfactant. This one is used in a toothpaste, baby products, I saw it as a primary surfactant in a high end “sulfate-free” shampoo.
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Got it. Thank you!
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@Microformulation, thank you for your comment. I am not supporting any anti-sulfates chemophobia, but, it is my personal experience, that sulfates are not very gentle with eyes. May I ask why coco-glucoside gave you pause? It is used in baby products and many face products that are marketed as “for sensistive skin” in a combination with Amphoteric surfactants. I understand that personal experience is not a good measurement of efficacy of active ingredients, but I guess it is possible to assess whether a face wash is gentle or not (irritates eyes)?
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Just had a conversation regarding DEA
Microformulation shared a very useful link.
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@Sebina, It seems to me that you can add more surfactants. The % of SLES and Cocamide-DEA in your formula, is it %w.w? If no, what is the concentration of the material used? Xantham is a bit high. Xanham contributes to not a very pleasant consistency. Consider reducing (try 0.5%, if not enough 0.7%). Sodium chloride looks a bit high too.
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@Microformulation thank you very much! Added to favorites
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Thank you! Consistent with what I found.
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@Microformulation this source is for the subscribers only. Do you have an alternative open source please? If not, what is the conclusion?
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@Fekher let’s leave “beliefs” to the church and do not operate this term when we are talking about cosmetic science. There are standards for a good research, such as methods used, sample size, animals or humans, in vitro or in vivo etc. Another point is that everything is a poison at a right concentration, even water. The researches suggest that there is not enough evidence to say that DEAs are cancerogens. Some animal testings show that “it potentially may be”. Experiments on rats and mice show controversial results. I did not brought up some random website, it’s the FDA website. If you can give a link to a legit scientific research paper that proves your point, not your “beliefs”, I am sure everyone here will be happy to change their mind. At least write the name of the book, not a screenshot of some page in French.