[ngarayeva001]

@UsmanAli, pH of 11 doesn’t cause an irritation? You must be joking. Where did you get this information? Thiethanolamine has a pH of 10-11 and it is used as a pH elevator. pH scale is logarithmic, the difference between 5 (approximate pH of human skin) and 11 is enormous! As @Fekher mentioned above pH of cosmetic products should be below 8.

[ngarayeva001]

I will just add that when you experiment it makes sense to work with small amounts to avoid wasting materials. But don’t make batches smaller than 100 gr. It is very hard to control. 

[ngarayeva001]

Off topic but does anyone know any suppliers who sell easinov for crafters (small amount)? I have a couple of seppic producs from lotioncrafter, but they do not have easinov.

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @EVchem, so I formulated a cream with retinol liposomes and ceramides. It is thick, cushiony, with long playtime, absorbs easily, and it has that  “expensive” feel. I wanted to add tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate to this existing formula (not to the ready product, I made it again and incorporated the vit c), but it completely destroyed the texture. I would say that in general Aristoflex AVC is hard to work with. It doesn’t tolerate electrolytes and many active ingredients (but if you keep the LOI basic it gives a great texture). I am considering Sepinov EMT, but it can be demanding as well. I have Sepiplus 400, GelMaker EMU (by makingcosmetics) and I recently bought Emulthix (Sodium Polyacrylate (and) Dimethicone (and) Cyclopentasiloxane (and) Trideceth-6 (and) PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone), but I can’t find my way around this one yet. The working formula (without vitamin c) is as follows:

Phase	INCI	%
A	Aqua	63.30%
A	Tetrasodium EDTA	0.10%
A	Glycerine	1.00%
A	Ceramide and cholesterol	6.00%
A	Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate	3.00%
A	Butylene Glycol	2.00%
A	Propanediol	2.00%
B	Squalane	2.00%
B	Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides	1.00%
B	Butyrospermum parkii butter	2.00%
B	Simmondsia Chinesis Seed Oil	2.00%
B	Dimethicone	3.00%
B	Cetyl Alcohol	2.00%
B	Cetearyl Alcohol	1.00%
B	Tocopheryl Acetate	0.20%
B	Tocopherol	0.75%
B	Sorbitan Oleate	1.00%
B	Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate	3.00%
B	Aristoflex AVC	0.75%
C	Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide - 7	0.50%
C	Retinol	2.00%
C	Resveratrol	0.10%
C	Bisabolol	0.20%
C	Sodium Carbomer	0.10%
C	Paraben DU/or phenoxy	1.00%

[ngarayeva001]

Anyone worked with tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate?

[ngarayeva001]

@Belassi this is a true art I heard that it’s possible but never could get to this point. I just add silicones and polymers and never ever use stearic acid in lotions. 

[ngarayeva001]

How much MAP do you use? This is a reason I don’t like carbomers very much, they can be too sensitive to the process. Try adding carbomer to your waterphase right after EDTA. So, water=>EDTA=>MAP=>niacinamide=>carbopol. Then add your preservative, perfume with solubilizer and neutralize. If that doesn’t work, replace carbopol to Sepimax Zen (this will work for sure). But as per my experience MAP doen’t break viscosity of polymers like some other derivatives. Do you have sodium carbomer? Try that one as well. You don’t have to neutralise it.

[ngarayeva001]

Have a look at these formulation tips.

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Belassi. I have not tried this combination of emulsifiers and I am curious to try now. Do cetyl alcohol and stearic absorb fast(white foaming) without silicones? made one formula for my friend with honey powder, aloe x200 (20%) oatsilk and other ‘natural goodness’ that I usually don’t use. I had to make it with fatty acids and xantham. It’s a matter of preferences. Some people don’t like polymers and find them sticky. I prefer either polymers alone or a combination of polymers and fatty acids.

[ngarayeva001]

@Doreen, I use tetrasodium EDTA with Aristoflex, but it’s .2% max. Regarding aloe, maybe it’s my experience but it destroys texture of any polymer. 
@Lisa18, if you use Aristoflex as the only emulsifier its from 1.5 to 2% depending on desired viscosity. I usually use 0.5-0.75 because I add other emulsifiers and fatty acids.

[ngarayeva001]

Soap should not be on face. End of story. Face product should be made of gentle surfactants, ideally a combination of amphoteric and non-ionic. Regarding pH, the closer it is to pH of skin the better.

[ngarayeva001]

You won’t reach a desired viscosity if formula contains electrolytes. You can try it yourself. Make an aqueous gel with aristoflex and add aloe (or sodium pca). You will see an immediate drop of viscosity. 

[ngarayeva001]

@Belassi, I did many experiments with aloe including the one in the recent discussion about ultrez. I find aloe a very problematic material. I will really appreciate if you can post a formula of the emulsion you mentioned (emulsifiers, thickners and oils, I understand you might not want to post the entire formula)

[ngarayeva001]

By the way, don’t use sodium PCA and sodium lactate with polymers either. For the same reason.

[ngarayeva001]

You used small amount of aloe. If you try to add more you will see drop of viscocity right away.

[ngarayeva001]

Mica should be treated by something in order to not to sink in oil. There was a discussion here a couple a months ago. Try to search the thread. Addictionally to this, grapeseed oil has high iodina value and goes rancid too fast. And keep measurements in % not spoons.

[ngarayeva001]

I am very sorry you are so restricted by this chemophobia

[ngarayeva001]

Problems with all types of polymers: Aristoflex AVC, Sepinov EMT, all kind of carbomers (even ultrez 30, if you add more than 10% of aloe), acrylates, GelMaker EMU, even Sepiplus 400 that is supposed to be electrolytes resistant. Aloe Won’t cause lose of viscosity of products based on conventional thickeners (fatty acids, gums etc). I avoid aloe in creams and gels.

[ngarayeva001]

You don’t use silicones but polymers are ok?

[ngarayeva001]

Again my observation is that creams that stay together for several years are made of conventional ingredients not polymers. Aristoflex creates pseudoumulsions. It’s not stable by nature. Same about Sepinov and all other similar emulsifiers. 

[ngarayeva001]

@KingRoland78, I broke my stick blender this way. It won’t work. Get a cheap chineese overhead stirrer on ebay. Just make sure it’s powerful enough for your viscosity. I got one for $80 (3500 rpm 100W). Works awesome for viscous o/w lotions. But you might need something a little more powerful. Stick blender isn’t a way to go unfortunately. 

[ngarayeva001]

I was curious too when started formulating. I thought everything above 10 is water soluble. Being fatty alcohols both cetyl and cetearyl alcohol  aren’t soluble in water (the internet says they partially soluble in hot water but I think it’s an urban myth). The thing holding them from water solubility is long carbon tail.  Saturated carbon chains are non-polar and as water is polar, so these two aren’t water soluble. That’s my understanding.

[ngarayeva001]

I agree with Perry, emulsions are not stable by nature. Some stay stable longer but those tend to be emulsions made with conventional thickeners and emulsifiers (e.i, something made of cetyl/cetearyl alcohol, stearic acid, glyceryl stearate, PEG based emulsifiers but not polymers). Aristoflex is one of the most demanding polymers I have ever formulated with. And I can see electrolytes in your formula. Aristoflex doesn’t tolerate aloe in any amount. Another potential reasons, HLB was calculated wrong, and as you noticed yourself too much of fragrance.

[ngarayeva001]

What exactly are you trying to calculate?

[ngarayeva001]

I agree. Skin doesn’t regenerate that fast. A product needs at least a couple of weeks (sometimes months) to show results. Some time is required even when lasers are used to break pigment in melasma (i might be wrong but I think it’s two weeks not one).