[natiyo123]

you can hide ingredients in very specific cases, like fragrance, extracts and also for example when you have different grades of the same substance for example I have seen a lot of raw materials with different properties, yet the CAS NUMBER and name is the same “corn starch” or ” modified corn starch” etc

[natiyo123]

does mixing glycols with different chain lengths boost antimicrobial activity?

[natiyo123]

PhilGeis said:

natiyo123 said:

I think formulas containing only 100% derived ingredients ( for example starting from biomass as raw material) CAN and DO work. Ive done some formulas… theyre more difficult to create but I think it is possible

What isn’t derived from nature - from biomass (what does that mean?).  Can you be specific?

Can you be specific in terms of preservstives.

what Mr Perry said

For preservatives I use a lot from inolex they work well and also naturally derived organic acids and chelators like sodium gluconate etc

[natiyo123]

also same doubt with chelators, for example sodium gluconate

[natiyo123]

I use sodium lauroyl lactylate and lauryl glucoside together, you have to melt them but once they cool down they thicken without any gum or whatever…

[natiyo123]

I think formulas containing only 100% derived ingredients ( for example starting from biomass as raw material) CAN and DO work. Ive done some formulas… theyre more difficult to create but I think it is possible

[natiyo123]

Pharma said:

Antimicrobial activity of fatty acids and their derivatives (e.g. glycols and more precisely 1,2-diols, fatty alcohols, sphingosines, monoglyceryl and methyl esters, glyceryl ethers) increases with chain length but, as @Formulator mentioned, water solubility drops. Hence, there is an optimum around C10 (C8-C12) depending on the derivative. The main antimicrobial effect at least of medium chain fatty acid derivatives is by destabilising membranes and seems to be common with all derivatives though secondary effects can not be excluded and are likely the reason why different derivatives have different antimicrobial spectra with regard to chain length. That’s also why there is not a single graph but actually a bunch of publications… a small and by far not comprehensive bunch, to be honest.

does mixing glycols with different chain lengths boost antimicrobial activity?

[natiyo123]

yeah, sorry I used the wrong word I meant HOW??? is it considered clean and natural***

[natiyo123]

is polysorbate considered clean and natural?? doesnt it contain trace amounts of ethylene oxide/dioxane??? its also very contaminating to produce. Have you tried sodium lauroyl lactylate or similar?

[natiyo123]

they use glycols and glycerin to lower water activity and they also have chelators… their preservation is quite good actually, at the same time avoiding “controversial” traditional preservatives.

[natiyo123]

I would never use NPs specially NOT for such an application as an antioxidant where u can have other safer (with enough evidence) and cheaper options

[natiyo123]

I also found this cleaner, TDS says thymol conc is 0.23% 
https://thymox.com/all-purpose/

[natiyo123]

suswang8 said:

Make sure you are noting whether it is thyme oil or thymol when you read up on this.  It is apparently extremely potent, as one company is marketing a disinfectant with 0.051% thymol.  

yeah I mean pure thymol crystals… oh ok, well I guess 0.3% in final product will do something hehe

[natiyo123]

Graillotion said:

Why not use something better…without the smell?  O-Cymen-5-Ol.

because I dont have access to it

[natiyo123]

ok thanks

[natiyo123]

Abdullah said:

natiyo123 said:

chemicalmatt said:

Lots of questions here…I am flooded…but here goes:
Affirmative, use vegetable shortening (hydrogenated vegetable oil) in your formula; edible grade works same as cosmetic grade; there is no difference; it is very comedogenic.

can I ask one last question?? assuming the rest of my formula has 0 comedogenicity potential, how much would u suggest to be my maximum usage level % . An approximate value to know where to start my tests???

Which oil would you use?
1-5% would not be a problem.

crisco, Soybean Oil, Fully Hydrogenated Palm Oil, Palm Oil, Mono And Diglycerides, TBHQ And Citric Acid

[natiyo123]

chemicalmatt said:

Lots of questions here…I am flooded…but here goes:
Affirmative, use vegetable shortening (hydrogenated vegetable oil) in your formula; edible grade works same as cosmetic grade; there is no difference; it is very comedogenic.

can I ask one last question?? assuming the rest of my formula has 0 comedogenicity potential, how much would u suggest to be my maximum usage level % . An approximate value to know where to start my tests???

[natiyo123]

lol thanks for the reply

[natiyo123]

are you mixing everything correctly in the bigger batch??

this happened to me with a balm too, I added glyceryl stearate or beeswax to make it homogeneous

[natiyo123]

I highly doubt it will work tho? have you tried it?? I have tried all 3 ingredients by themselves, the SLL made my deo soapy, TEC works well for some hours but I use it at 5% and sage could work too but at higher levels I guess

[natiyo123]

I have used dowanol DPM to solubilize EOs in water, I guess u could try other glycols. Or homogenization can solubilize oils in water too. 

[natiyo123]

yes i have castor oil , but why? is it because of higher viscosity?

[natiyo123]

isopropyl myristate and triacetin are penetration enhancers and can work in acid pH

[natiyo123]

I just found an article that suggests ZnO + CA are compatible and antibacterial. I guess I answered my own Q. 

Evaluation of anti-microbial activities of ZnO, citric acid and a mixture of both against Propionibacterium acnes

• DOI: 10.1111/ics.12318

[natiyo123]

Pharma said:

Amphoteric? How so?

It’s nearly insoluble in water but not entirely insoluble (especially with qualities which contain traces of carbonate and hydroxide). So, zinc oxides often react alkaline. Given that it’s a metal oxide, it will react with acids and is therefore incompatible with these. Without water, i.e. in pure oil formulations, there is by definition no pH, no matter what you add (unless it’s a protic solvent or the like).

I read it can react with both bases and acids, I suppose strong ones?

I meant the pH once its on the skin, supposing it gets wet with sweat… I read it does react with acids?? I want to use it in an anhydrous deo stick with , triethyl citrate, basically thats the point of my question. I know triethyl citrate hydrolyzes into citric acid