mikethair
Forum Replies Created
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Hi @sahar, I would be first looking at your shampoo base and identifying what is causing the strong smell. And knowing what this is you have two options.
First, eliminate this ingredient or find an alternative that does not have such a strong smell.
Or, second, once you have identified the strong smell, then work on a fragrance that can work or has synergy with this smell. And creating a fragrance can be a lot of painstaking and methodical work. It’s something I have been doing for 30+ years.
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Yep. It’s something I suffer from……extremely dry skin.
And the solution? I use high-quality plant oils applied directly to my skin. My choice at the moment is Jojoba Oil.
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Interesting question.
As the co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since 2006, I provide a perspective different from most.
With my background as a scientist for many years (around 40 years) I focussed on developing product formulations that did not use preservatives.
And how, you may ask. Simple. For our wash products (body wash, face wash, and shampoo) I perfected the process of saponifying plant oils. For example, extra virgin olive oil for our face wash base. And by their very nature, these products do not require preservatives.
And we were manufacturing in our Certified GMP factories, so all international compliance standards were met. We were exporting to the EU, Japan, the USA, and other countries where we met all the compliance requirements.
And sales were good, because many customers are concerned about preservatives, so the products we manufactured became their focus. And 90% of our revenue was Private Label where we were manufacturing and exporting for other brands globally.
To answer your question. Yes, consumers are concerned about preservatives.
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Not a direct answer to your question, but I was contacted by a significant African producer of Shea Butter. They wanted me to assist them in value-adding their Shea Butter, which I did. And this added significant value to what they were producing and really turned this company around financially.
So, a lot of these producers are using their own Shea Butter in various ways.
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Yes, as the
co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since
2006, we have found that double cleansing starting with a plant oil cleanser is the most effective. This was the first stage of facial cleansing.And the key is the second stage. We found that the usual commercial surfactant-based cleaner caused issues for many of our customers. So, I developed a gentler cleanser by saponifying extra-virgin olive oil. It was gentle and moisturising. We superfatted the formula by leaving some of the extra-virgin olive oil unsaponified.
Our global sales did very well.
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Yes indeed, a timely reminder that brands need to carefully vet all green claims in view of the evolving regulatory and litigation frameworks. Too many brands are jumping on the bandwagon to score points, and I anticipate more litigation on the horizon.
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All I can reply is that my opinions are based on my experience as the co-founder and Master Formulator of
a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since 2006. We exported globally into some of the most rigours skincare compliance regimes in the world. Plus, I am a scientist who has consulted globally for 30+ years.My opinion, you can take or leave.
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Of course, the toxicologists at IFRA would agree. Who is paying their salary?
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There is a lot in the literature, and my research interest and focus as a scientist as a skincare manufacturer is the role of fragrance as an Endocrine Disruptor. A limited selection below.
doi: 10.1016/j.ecoenv.2022.113677. Epub 2022 May 26.
Environ Health Perspect. 2012 Jul;120(7):935-43. doi: 10.1289/ehp.1104052. Epub 2012 Mar 8.
Environ Health Perspect. 2016 Aug;124(8):1155-65. doi: 10.1289/ehp.1510529. Epub 2016 Mar 8.
Curr Probl Pediatr Adolesc Health Care. 2017 May;47(5):107-118. doi: 10.1016/j.cppeds.2017.04.002. Epub 2017 May 17.
J Expo Sci Environ Epidemiol. 2022 Nov;32(6):864-876. doi: 10.1038/s41370-022-00485-y. Epub 2022 Nov 2.
Environ Res. 2018 Aug;165:448-458. doi: 10.1016/j.envres.2018.03.030. Epub 2018 Apr 25.
Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2018 Oct 15;474:238-251. doi: 10.1016/j.mce.2018.03.014. Epub 2018 Mar 27.
Int J Mol Sci. 2023 Mar 10;24(6):5342. doi: 10.3390/ijms24065342.
Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 2019 Aug;106:349-350. doi: 10.1016/j.yrtph.2019.05.007. Epub 2019 May 11.
Dermatol Clin. 2020 Jul;38(3):371-377. doi: 10.1016/j.det.2020.02.009. Epub 2020 May 4.
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Hi @PhilGeis,
We will probably need to agree to disagree on this one. I have done extensive research of the published scientific literature (peer-reviewed), and come to y conclusions.
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Preservative-free claims with eye drops should be a red flag for consumers.
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Hi @jupiter yes, we manufactured soap bars for 20+ years in Viet Nam and Malaysia and exported globally. In our factories, I set up a physical chemistry lab to back up my formulation experimentation (plus to satisfy our GMP compliance requirements).
One thing we did was to super-fat recipes. Here we would reduce the amount of NaOH required in a calculated recipe, and this would leave some of the oil un-saponified. This oil would provide the soap bars with a moisturising effect. There were other variables here as well, including the type of oil unsaponified.
And it worked. I have very very dry skin, and these bars were great on my skin. And the customers loved these bars as well.
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@PhilGeis the literature references you have provided describe the approach taken by our QC Manager. She was young and enthusiastic and I had provided within our factory two well-equipped labs.
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@ketchito and another approach is to share brand philosophy and identity. And this is what consumers are buying into. The result is that your brand is not so much product-driven as purpose-driven, and therefore less bossed around by the consumer or market, and more driven by the brand’s convictions. Within this context with my brand we would often focus on “old fashion values from simpler times” and “exotic fragrances will take you away to a time and place where life moves more leisurely.”
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Hi PhilGeis,
Yes, over the 20 years that we manufactured soap bars, for every batch we produced our QC Manager retained bars for 2-3 years, and these were tested regularly. All results were recorded. Plus, we did various tests in-use with the help of some of our customers.
We never detected any issues, apart from fragrance loss. So, I would say that our QC Manager and myself have a fairly good idea.
And your most insightful comment - “Mike - I do not know if consumer safety is compromised by your products.”
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PhilGeis, Yes, I can see where you are coming from, and it’s fair enough. And over the 20 years we manufactured soap bars we did run some in-use testing, and did not detect any issues.
Can you point us in the direction of what other soap makers are doing?
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(1) Yes indeed, most consumers do not care about preservatives. This is the mass market and not our target market.
(2) And we weren’t into fear-mongering. We just produced products that did not use preservatives. We left the fear-mongering to other brands.
And we were all about “trading down,” down to the local, the simple, the unrefined but raw and true.
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Yes indeed, there is certainly a large segment of consumers who prefer synthetic detergents and moisturizers over traditional soap and face/body oils. And these consumers were not our focus and never will be.
And conditioner is well outside the scope we would cater for with my formulations. However, we did produce a successful shampoo using saponified coconut oil. It worked for some hair types, but not others.
I never aimed to formulate products for the mass market. It is a very crowded space, and dominated by very cheap products. Our focus was on artisanal products.
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And this is about to change. The USA will adopt compliance standards similar to the EU. But it is in process now, and may be difficult to implement.
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PhilGeis - If you are implying that our products compromised micro and chemical safety, then you are mistaken.
Again, we complied with the toughest cosmetics compliance standards globally. From our experience, Japan tops the list, followed by the EU, and we exported to both countries.
And the USA standards were the lowest, but currently, these are in the process of being revised.
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Your words, not mine.
And my words “As a scientist, I focussed on developing product formulations that did not use preservatives.”
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Yes indeed, adulteration of beeswax is VERY common. Our approach was to always insist on a CoA. And even what constitutes a proper CoA varies from supplier to supplier.
And secondly, by from the same supplier to ensure consistency. And ask questions about the source etc.
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These Fairtrade producers need to broaden their supply……should have been in place well before the crash of Body Shop.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but would probably be a lot easier if we stuck with those in our own backyard.
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Yes indeed. I would agree.
Many soap makers don’t spend enough time developing formulations. In my case, as a scientist, I applied full scientific rigour to developing our formulations. So it was a slow, methodical process. And including the time of having consumers test each batch, I spent at least 12 months before I was happy with the original formulations.
And another factor is that I was operating in our GMP-certified factory. Here I developed the QC System and all of the Quality SoPs. What this meant was that record keeping during the development phases of our formulations was 100%, and so was reproducibility. All very important. And something that many overlook.