mikethair
Forum Replies Created
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Yep. It’s something I suffer from……extremely dry skin.
And the solution? I use high-quality plant oils applied directly to my skin. My choice at the moment is Jojoba Oil.
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Interesting question.
As the co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since 2006, I provide a perspective different from most.
With my background as a scientist for many years (around 40 years) I focussed on developing product formulations that did not use preservatives.
And how, you may ask. Simple. For our wash products (body wash, face wash, and shampoo) I perfected the process of saponifying plant oils. For example, extra virgin olive oil for our face wash base. And by their very nature, these products do not require preservatives.
And we were manufacturing in our Certified GMP factories, so all international compliance standards were met. We were exporting to the EU, Japan, the USA, and other countries where we met all the compliance requirements.
And sales were good, because many customers are concerned about preservatives, so the products we manufactured became their focus. And 90% of our revenue was Private Label where we were manufacturing and exporting for other brands globally.
To answer your question. Yes, consumers are concerned about preservatives.
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Not a direct answer to your question, but I was contacted by a significant African producer of Shea Butter. They wanted me to assist them in value-adding their Shea Butter, which I did. And this added significant value to what they were producing and really turned this company around financially.
So, a lot of these producers are using their own Shea Butter in various ways.
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Yes, as the
co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since
2006, we have found that double cleansing starting with a plant oil cleanser is the most effective. This was the first stage of facial cleansing.And the key is the second stage. We found that the usual commercial surfactant-based cleaner caused issues for many of our customers. So, I developed a gentler cleanser by saponifying extra-virgin olive oil. It was gentle and moisturising. We superfatted the formula by leaving some of the extra-virgin olive oil unsaponified.
Our global sales did very well.
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Yes indeed, a timely reminder that brands need to carefully vet all green claims in view of the evolving regulatory and litigation frameworks. Too many brands are jumping on the bandwagon to score points, and I anticipate more litigation on the horizon.
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Ok, a few points here, based on my experience as the co-founder of
a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia since 2006. We manufacture and export to many brands globally.First, Decyl glucoside, and HEC are not required.
Second, to make it less drying on the hands, we use a process called “superfatting.” In essence, you adjust your saponification formulation by reducing the amount of KOH to leave some of the oil unsaponified. It takes some experimentation and good record-keeping to get the balance right. And once you get it right, then use the same formulation repeatedly. Also, be careful of the quality of ingredients used. They must be consistent.
Please feel free to message me if you need help.
Kind regards,
Dr Mike Thair.
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What is a “hair developer”?
And the product you are trying to dupe, what country does it come from?
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I have been there and done that. We scaled up to establish two factories. One in Ha Noi, Viet Nam, and another on Penang Island, Malaysia.
But I see alarm bells when you say “I’m making lotions with various viscosities.” With these products, we stuck to large stainless steel buckets. Although we had very large thermostatically controlled tanks with mixers, the viscosities were always an issue. Thus, the reason we stuck with large stainless steel buckets.
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Hi PhilGeis,
Yes, over the 20 years that we manufactured soap bars, for every batch we produced our QC Manager retained bars for 2-3 years, and these were tested regularly. All results were recorded. Plus, we did various tests in-use with the help of some of our customers.
We never detected any issues, apart from fragrance loss. So, I would say that our QC Manager and myself have a fairly good idea.
And your most insightful comment - “Mike - I do not know if consumer safety is compromised by your products.”
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PhilGeis, Yes, I can see where you are coming from, and it’s fair enough. And over the 20 years we manufactured soap bars we did run some in-use testing, and did not detect any issues.
Can you point us in the direction of what other soap makers are doing?
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(1) Yes indeed, most consumers do not care about preservatives. This is the mass market and not our target market.
(2) And we weren’t into fear-mongering. We just produced products that did not use preservatives. We left the fear-mongering to other brands.
And we were all about “trading down,” down to the local, the simple, the unrefined but raw and true.
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Yes indeed, there is certainly a large segment of consumers who prefer synthetic detergents and moisturizers over traditional soap and face/body oils. And these consumers were not our focus and never will be.
And conditioner is well outside the scope we would cater for with my formulations. However, we did produce a successful shampoo using saponified coconut oil. It worked for some hair types, but not others.
I never aimed to formulate products for the mass market. It is a very crowded space, and dominated by very cheap products. Our focus was on artisanal products.
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And this is about to change. The USA will adopt compliance standards similar to the EU. But it is in process now, and may be difficult to implement.
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PhilGeis - If you are implying that our products compromised micro and chemical safety, then you are mistaken.
Again, we complied with the toughest cosmetics compliance standards globally. From our experience, Japan tops the list, followed by the EU, and we exported to both countries.
And the USA standards were the lowest, but currently, these are in the process of being revised.
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Your words, not mine.
And my words “As a scientist, I focussed on developing product formulations that did not use preservatives.”
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Yes indeed, adulteration of beeswax is VERY common. Our approach was to always insist on a CoA. And even what constitutes a proper CoA varies from supplier to supplier.
And secondly, by from the same supplier to ensure consistency. And ask questions about the source etc.
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These Fairtrade producers need to broaden their supply……should have been in place well before the crash of Body Shop.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but would probably be a lot easier if we stuck with those in our own backyard.
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Yes indeed. I would agree.
Many soap makers don’t spend enough time developing formulations. In my case, as a scientist, I applied full scientific rigour to developing our formulations. So it was a slow, methodical process. And including the time of having consumers test each batch, I spent at least 12 months before I was happy with the original formulations.
And another factor is that I was operating in our GMP-certified factory. Here I developed the QC System and all of the Quality SoPs. What this meant was that record keeping during the development phases of our formulations was 100%, and so was reproducibility. All very important. And something that many overlook.
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Hi Abdullah,
With my experience as
the co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia
since 2006, I would have to disagree. It’s all about the soap formulation and superfatting. And one thing that our customers said was that our soaps were not drying. We exported soaps globally, and many (about 90%) were Private Label.In fact, I spoke to a long-term (10-year) Japanese customer this morning, and she made this point. She sells her soap to a very prestigious retail outlet in Tokyo.
Therefore, I’m sorry, I will have to disagree with you in saying soap is drying.
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The ingredients you mention are probably causing the smell you describe.
But when you mention “incorporating an appropriate amount of fragrance” can you please describe (i) what fragrance and percentage used, and (ii) your production method including how and when the fragrance is added.
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Excellent point, temperature can be a factor in the production of many products. And as you mention, there are other factors as well.
We produced SoPs for the production of every product we manufactured, and since we were manufacturing in Malaysia and Viet Nam we learnt that these are VERY important.
I’m amazed that many companies don’t bother with developing a QC system, including product SoPs.
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There is peer-reviewed scientific literature that demonstrates that skin can recover quickly from high-pH soap (9.5 pH).
With my experience as
the co-founder of a skincare manufacturing factory in Viet Nam and Malaysia
since 2006, we produced a lot of soap under GMP manufacturing standards. We exported globally under our brand and other brands. These soaps were enormously popular.And our secret. Firstly, very high-quality ingredients. Second, attention to detail in the formulation of our soap bars. For example, we spent 12+ months formulating and testing our first bars.
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If you would like to share with me the particular SoPs for this product, I would be willing to provide my comments. Please email me at: mikethair@gmail.com
Kind regards,
Dr Mike Thair
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In my experience (20+ years manufacturing) if there is no separation in the lab, but it separates in production, I would be looking at the SoPs for this product. Perhaps the SoPs are not being followed by your production staff.