[mikethair]

In the hands of a skilled formulator who knows and understands essential oils, I would rate them as safe.

Also, sourcing plays an important role, as do proper CoAs, and a formulator who understands the information provide. The allergens analysis in a CoA is important.

The fact is that EOs have been around a long time, and are well documented in the scientific literature.

And the alternatives? Synthetic fragrances.

[mikethair]

We buy branded Reverse Osmosis water in 18 L containers. Every batch goes through our on-site labs for testing, including TDS, pH and microbial testing. Every now and again our lab rejects a batch.

[mikethair]

Why not just use oils?

[mikethair]

Perry said:

6. They must believe their own BS.  This is probably the most important factor and one of the reasons there aren’t more successful brands created by chemists/scientists. A marketers has to really believe in what they are selling. A chemist wants to believe in what is true. Often, the truth is an impediment to marketing a product.  

On point…. I fall into the scientist camp, and yes, absolutely can be an impediment to marketing. But I try to turn the truth into a plus for marketing, but it ain’t easy.

[mikethair]

Dungngo said:

Hi Mike,

Are you guys specialized in natural cosmetics sector? As I mainly work with natural ingredients like candelila wax, honey powder, oatmeal protein etc.
And can you send me your price quote as well as shipping rate from Malaysia to US? Thanks !

Yes, we are specialised in natural cosmetics. You can read more on this link:

https://indochinenatural.com/private-label/

I cannot quote until I know more about your formulation, and we agree on MOQ.

Shipping is dependent on weight and volume. Therefore I cannot quote until we have more detail of product, container type, weight etc, plus destination address and postcode.

If you would like to progress further, complete our prequalification form found here:

https://indochinenatural.com/pre-qualification-form/

[mikethair]

And look at the bottle type and colour of this so-called essential oil. This should tell you something straight away.

[mikethair]

We are located on Penang Island, Malaysia, and do contract manufacturing for local and international brands. We have a GMP Certified production facility, are fully compliant with cosmetic regulations, and do low MOQs.

[mikethair]

I usually refer to ISO 29621 -

Cosmetics — Microbiology —
Guidelines for the risk assessment
and identification of microbiologically
low-risk products

In certain product types, where extreme pH levels are reported, those considered pH ≤3,0 and pH ≥10,0
do not require microbiological testing, including both challenge-test and end-product testing. At all
other pH values (>3,0 but <10,0), a combination of pH and other Physico-chemical factors needs to be
evaluated to determine potential risk.

[mikethair]

Yes, we use Mikrocount dip slides in a lab incubator during the development phases. And if all is OK, it’s then off to a certified lab for Challenge Tests.

Who has the money to spend on a lab test during product development?

[mikethair]

In our microbial lab we use Mikrocount Combi tubes and a lab incubator for initial product development testing. Later we will send samples out to a certified lab for the preservative efficacy test.

Over 10 years has worked perfectly.

[mikethair]

We are GMP Certified and store our ingredients in a dedicated ingredients store room that id temperature and humidity controlled.

Best to read the storage parameters for each of your ingredients and ensure compliance.

[mikethair]

PhilGeis said:

45 kg.  Dang.   Supplier contract with the jerks didn’t offer any help?

No. They sent a follow-up sample, and on evaluation had a very strong and rather unpleasant back note that I think was the result of over-dosing with preservative. Then they blamed issues and contamination with their RO water.

[mikethair]

@MarkBroussard

Been down that track…. no result. 

That’s why I thinking it may be easier to dot ourselves. But can’t say I have any experience in this type of product…. often it’s the one that appears simplest are the ones that produce problems.

Anyone here have experience?

[mikethair]

I have developed a system using Excel. Works for me, and have been using the approach for 15+ years

[mikethair]

Good question. We operate a GMP certified production facility and most of our business is formulating and producing OEM / Private Label. To-date we keep the IP, but I am not prepared for the day someone wants to purchase a formulation. It seems to be a grey area. Looking forward to some responses.

[mikethair]

Cafe33 said:

In reality, soap should be limited to cleaning the body. It is not recommended for hair. 

For years we have been producing a liquid soap made from coconut oil. It’s popular, and sells well. But did take some time to perfect.

[mikethair]

Graillotion said:

mikethair said:

My business partner and I have allergies to synthetic fragrances, so in our skin & hair care product business we stick with essential oils only. And we only buy from trusted sources… one I have used for around 30 years, and the newest, 10 years. All batches supplied with CoAs. 

Are you willing to share your trusted sources?  Do they sell small pack?

Of all the small pack resellers I have tried, I like New Directions the best.  But always open to a good supplier!  Can never have enough of those.  (Also shipping from Canada to Hawaii….adds up!)

We are usually buying in around 30 Kg lots, so not “small pack.” Plus in our part of the world SE Asia, the suppliers are not the same as Cananda - Hawaii. Yes, we sometimes use New Directions (Australia) but you need to be careful in your specs…. we have fund they can sometimes tend towards things like “nature identical oils” which are in fact synthetic.

[mikethair]

My business partner and I have allergies to synthetic fragrances, so in our skin & hair care product business we stick with essential oils only. And we only buy from trusted sources… one I have used for around 30 years, and the newest, 10 years. All batches supplied with CoAs.

We have found that many consumers have similar issues with synthetic fragrances. And many have gravitated to our brand because we don’t use synthetics. Same applies to our Private Label/OEM clients, which is now the largest income generator. None of this was planned or calculated. And when we started I was only aware that we could not work with synthetic fragrances due to our own allergic reactions.

In summary then, there is probably space in the marketplace for both synthetic and essential oil fragrances. Most important I think is transparency.

[mikethair]

Under the ASEAN Cosmetics Guidelines we retain for one year after expiry date. At the same time we run parallel Real Time and Rapid (3 months) Stability Tests.

[mikethair]

Perry said:

@mikethair - I understand this position and agree that it is nice to be able to communicate with who makes the product. It’s just very easy for an unscrupulous individual to start a beauty product line, cut corners, and produce something that might harm consumers.

I have no great love for the big guys. But when it comes to safety, I think they are the better bet for consumers. 

I think that the key is to look at the credentials of the “little guys.” Are they GMP Certified and regularly audited by the cosmetics compliance authorities? The qualifications and experience of the formulators? etc etc.

[mikethair]

I’m on the side of the little guys…… at least you can communicate with the guys who make the stuff…..

[mikethair]

We produce a liquid Castile soap made from extra virgin olive oil. We use a saponification vat purchased from the USA. I have experience consulting remotely to companies in Africa on how to purchase, set up, and use the equipment, and also on the formulation.

Email me at: mikethair@indochinenatural.com      I should be able to assist with both parts of your project.

[mikethair]

I have experience working remotely with groups in Ghana, Tanzania, and South Africa. Our speciality in our GMP certified production facility on Penang Island is producing face wash, shampoo and body wash by saponifying commonly found plant oils. The advantage is that these do not require preservatives.

With a group I’m working with remotely in Ghana, I’ve got them to the stage of producing 84 Kg batches of Body Wash using oils they harvest and produce.

In my opinion, and from my experience (I’ve worked 40 years in development and poverty alleviation in many developing countries), it would be very difficult for her as an individual to make much progress. Better to think of forming a local collective.

[mikethair]

If you are using essential oils then you should insist on a CoA from your supplier for each batch number you purchase (it’s part of your GMP compliance). The CoA should have an allergens analysis. Using this allergens analysis for each oil, then you should do an analysis of the total allergens for your finished product. Then check if the level of each allergen is below published upper limits.

[mikethair]

If the liquid soap has a pH 9 - 10, a preservative is unnecessary. Refer to ISO

29621 “Cosmetics — Microbiology — Guidelines for the risk assessment and identification of microbiologically low-risk products.”

We have a GMP Certified production facility producing a lot of liquid soap, and export globally. These products are Notified with cosmetics authorities and all the necessary testing is done in our in-house labs and verified by external labs.